acoustic guitar string tension

[zebra]

This one has been keeping me awake at night for years:

Why does an acoustic guitar with the same scale length and same string gauge as an electric guitar seem to have such a stiffer action?   

 

[mayfly]

same gauge?  Sure about that?

In any case - it's the materials.

 

[swarfrat]

I usually can't tolerate acoustic guitars with the same string gauge I play on electrics. Totally wimps out and can't drive it.

 

[Steve_Karl]

I agree with Mayfly ... probably materials.
I've got 10's on my acoustic and electrics and the acoustic always feels stiffer of the high e.

I did (one time as a test) string the acoustic with the exact same set I use on electrics, Ernie Ball 10s in the Lime colored pack.
Then it felt really close but it lost a lot of sound.

 

[drewfx]

Unwound strings are exactly the same for electric and steel string acoustic guitars.

So if there is a difference on the unwound strings, it's either due to scale length or the fact that electrics often have a much longer length of string on the other side of the bridge saddles which might affect the feel when bending.

 

[DaveT]

Surely the difference in feel is due to the action almost always being a lot higher on an acoustic guitar?
I have never ever played an acoustic guitar - even expensive ones - that have me wishing I had one of those.

 

[line6man]

I don't play acoustic, so I have nothing to offer to the discussion, but my guess would be that an acoustic guitar reacts differently to changes in string tension than an electric guitar, due to its difference in construction. Necks flex a bit, under tension, so a stiffer neck/body will flex less, when the strings are plucked.

 

[Cagey]

Mayfly got it. For a given scale length, string diameter, weight and frequency, any differences in tension are going to be due to metalurgy. Different alloys of steel, chromium, nickel, bronze, etc. will all change the tension it takes to get the string to the frequency you want. So, it's not electric vs. acoustic, it's alloy vs. alloy. Nickel-plated steel, phosphor bronze, stainless steel, plain steel - they'll all feel different. D'Addario has an extensive chart here that lists the tensions needed for their various strings to get to certain pitches.

Edit: They also have a fun little tool that will let you play with changing various properties to see what effect it has on tension here, so you could make up custom hybrid sets to suit yourself.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Surely the difference in feel is due to the action almost always being a lot higher on an acoustic guitar?
I have never ever played an acoustic guitar - even expensive ones - that have me wishing I had one of those.

I agreee for the most part other than a nice Gibson acoustic I once owned, a very early Ovation shallow bowl acoustic, and my Ovation current Adams 2 which is the best playing most articulate action of any guitar I've ever owned since 1965.
Nothing has been changed on it since I got it in the early 80s other than strings and ocassionally adding or removing a shim under the saddle, depending on what I need it to do.
I can get my electrics lower than the Adamas, but I have 2 of them set higher and one of them about the same.

 

[drewfx]

Mayfly got it. For a given scale length, string diameter, weight and frequency, any differences in tension are going to be due to metalurgy. Different alloys of steel, chromium, nickel, bronze, etc. will all change the tension it takes to get the string to the frequency you want. So, it's not electric vs. acoustic, it's alloy vs. alloy. Nickel-plated steel, phosphor bronze, stainless steel, plain steel - they'll all feel different. D'Addario has an extensive chart here that lists the tensions needed for their various strings to get to certain pitches.

Edit: They also have a fun little tool that will let you play with changing various properties to see what effect it has on tension here, so you could make up custom hybrid sets to suit yourself.

But again, keep in mind that for unwound strings, they are exactly the same string. The various string materials used only applies to the wound strings. Just look at the labeling of single strings:

 

[Cagey]

It applies to unwound strings as well. For example, stainless steel is different than plain steel, which is different from high-cobalt steel, which is different from nickel-plated steel, etc. I'm sure many different complete sets do share the same unwound strings, but that doesn't mean all unwound strings of a given gauge are the same. You don't have to wrap a string to change its alloy.

 

[drewfx]

Look at your D'Addario tension charts and see how many different unwound string varieties they offer.

And feel free to look at other manufacturers as well.

 

[zebra]

Metallurgy - this all makes more sense now.  :icon_thumright:

 

[musicispeace]

Very interesting, I have wondered about this myself a time or two. At this stage I just que up some Lightnin Hopkins and leave acoustics to the experts. Zebra, I like your Siamese cat. I was fortunate enough to have one in my life many years ago.