A variety of Strat questions

[Mnemoflame]

A conversation with DiMarzio's techs is resulting in a wiring diagram for the following:

-Push-Push or Push-Pull Master Volume (add bridge)

-Master Tone

-Five-way:  N, N+M, M, M+B, B

-3 DPDT:  series/parallel/single-coil wired for hum cancellation when the N+M or M+B combinations are selected in single-coil

 

[line6man]

A conversation with DiMarzio's techs is resulting in a wiring diagram for the following:

-Push-Push or Push-Pull Master Volume (add bridge)

-Master Tone

-Five-way:  N, N+M, M, M+B, B

-3 DPDT:  series/parallel/single-coil wired for hum cancellation when the N+M or M+B combinations are selected in single-coil

That's relatively simple to wire.

Are you going with inner or outer coils in single coil mode?

 

[Mnemoflame]

That's relatively simple to wire.

Are you going with inner or outer coils in single coil mode?

That hadn't come up.  Any particular reason to go one way or another?

 

[line6man]

That's relatively simple to wire.

Are you going with inner or outer coils in single coil mode?

That hadn't come up.  Any particular reason to go one way or another?

It makes a difference in the phase of the waveforms outputting each pickup. Outer coils will give a greater phase shift, as the two pickups sense the string movement from locations farther apart than inner coils. This causes different groups of frequencies to add constructively and destructively.  I'm sure someone here can describe the tonal effects in detail.

In any case, the tricky part is choosing the right combo of coils to humcancel.
If you were doing two humbuckers only, you would want the coils in each pickup RWRP, so that the inner coils or outer coils would humcancel together. With the added middle pickup, however, you would want the inner or outer coils to have the same magnetic and electric polarity so that either pickup can humcancel with the middle pickup when split. I have no idea whether DiMarzio does their neck and bridge pickups with the same polarity or with RWRP coils, but depending on the pole piece style and winding of each coil, you can flip a pickup 180 degrees to make either the north or south coil have the same polarity on both humbuckers, so that both pickups will humcancel when split and combined with the middle pickup.

Depending on what DiMarzio chooses, you could have a diagram for inner, outer or north-only coils, but you can swap leads on the switches and possibly rotate a pickup to get either inner or outer coils, or both north coils, or both south coils.

 

[Mnemoflame]

It makes a difference in the phase of the waveforms outputting each pickup. Outer coils will give a greater phase shift, as the two pickups sense the string movement from locations farther apart than inner coils. This causes different groups of frequencies to add constructively and destructively.  I'm sure someone here can describe the tonal effects in detail.

In any case, the tricky part is choosing the right combo of coils to humcancel.
If you were doing two humbuckers only, you would want the coils in each pickup RWRP, so that the inner coils or outer coils would humcancel together. With the added middle pickup, however, you would want the inner or outer coils to have the same magnetic and electric polarity so that either pickup can humcancel with the middle pickup when split. I have no idea whether DiMarzio does their neck and bridge pickups with the same polarity or with RWRP coils, but depending on the pole piece style and winding of each coil, you can flip a pickup 180 degrees to make either the north or south coil have the same polarity on both humbuckers, so that both pickups will humcancel when split and combined with the middle pickup.

Depending on what DiMarzio chooses, you could have a diagram for inner, outer or north-only coils, but you can swap leads on the switches and possibly rotate a pickup to get either inner or outer coils, or both north coils, or both south coils.

Is there a common preference for this?

 

[line6man]

It makes a difference in the phase of the waveforms outputting each pickup. Outer coils will give a greater phase shift, as the two pickups sense the string movement from locations farther apart than inner coils. This causes different groups of frequencies to add constructively and destructively.  I'm sure someone here can describe the tonal effects in detail.

In any case, the tricky part is choosing the right combo of coils to humcancel.
If you were doing two humbuckers only, you would want the coils in each pickup RWRP, so that the inner coils or outer coils would humcancel together. With the added middle pickup, however, you would want the inner or outer coils to have the same magnetic and electric polarity so that either pickup can humcancel with the middle pickup when split. I have no idea whether DiMarzio does their neck and bridge pickups with the same polarity or with RWRP coils, but depending on the pole piece style and winding of each coil, you can flip a pickup 180 degrees to make either the north or south coil have the same polarity on both humbuckers, so that both pickups will humcancel when split and combined with the middle pickup.

Depending on what DiMarzio chooses, you could have a diagram for inner, outer or north-only coils, but you can swap leads on the switches and possibly rotate a pickup to get either inner or outer coils, or both north coils, or both south coils.

Is there a common preference for this?

Ibanez's HSH guitars split to the inner coils, IIRC.

 

[Mnemoflame]

Ibanez's HSH guitars split to the inner coils, IIRC.

That would likely include the Jem, which my brother is a big fan of.  I'll inquire about that.

 

[line6man]

Ibanez's HSH guitars split to the inner coils, IIRC.

That would likely include the Jem, which my brother is a big fan of.  I'll inquire about that.

There are so many damn JEMs in existence, I don't know how much variation you can expect, but if I pick a standard one off of Ibanez's website, it splits to the inner coils.
http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-JEM7V

 

[Mnemoflame]

There are so many damn JEMs in existence, I don't know how much variation you can expect, but if I pick a standard one off of Ibanez's website, it splits to the inner coils.
http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-JEM7V

From what the Dimarzio guy said, I'm guessing it's done that way for proximity.  I wonder how that will work out, given that the middle pickup is a humbucker too; Seems like it would require one coil when paired with the neck and the other with the bridge; would that require rotating the bridge pickup?  Either way, the variation that introduces interests me; this will be fun.

 

[line6man]

There are so many damn JEMs in existence, I don't know how much variation you can expect, but if I pick a standard one off of Ibanez's website, it splits to the inner coils.
http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-JEM7V

From what the Dimarzio guy said, I'm guessing it's done that way for proximity.  I wonder how that will work out, given that the middle pickup is a humbucker too; Seems like it would require one coil when paired with the neck and the other with the bridge; would that require rotating the bridge pickup?  Either way, the variation that introduces interests me; this will be fun.

Oh, if the middle pickup is a humbucker, it will only humcancel when it's also split. You can choose either the north or south coil if it is a rail-style coil.
If it is a split coil (As in, one coil for three strings and one coil for the other three strings, not to be confused with "coil splitting."), you cannot do a single coil mode. If it is a stacked coil, you wouldn't want to use the bottom coil alone.

 

[Mnemoflame]

Oh, if the middle pickup is a humbucker, it will only humcancel when it's also split. You can choose either the north or south coil if it is a rail-style coil.
If it is a split coil (As in, one coil for three strings and one coil for the other three strings, not to be confused with "coil splitting."), you cannot do a single coil mode. If it is a stacked coil, you wouldn't want to use the bottom coil alone.

The Chopper is a rail-style coil. 

 

[line6man]

Oh, if the middle pickup is a humbucker, it will only humcancel when it's also split. You can choose either the north or south coil if it is a rail-style coil.
If it is a split coil (As in, one coil for three strings and one coil for the other three strings, not to be confused with "coil splitting."), you cannot do a single coil mode. If it is a stacked coil, you wouldn't want to use the bottom coil alone.

The Chopper is a rail-style coil.  

Then you're good to split to either coil. The north coil is preferable, from a technical standpoint.

 

[Mnemoflame]

Anyone had experience with the Tone Zone S?  Looking at the tendencies of the D Activators and The Chopper, I notice they're all on the weak side for bass.  Both versions of Tone Zone are bass-heavy and the Tone Zone S is suggested for neck position when a warm jazz sound is required.  Would this work well in tandem with the bright humbuckers?

Distortion demo of the Tone Zone S in the bridge.
Tone Zone S in the neck

Sounds a bit muddy in the neck but the coil-tapped sound is nice.  Does the middle sound more like the neck or bridge?  I know it's going to be different due to angle but some comparison should be able to be drawn.

 

[line6man]

Anyone had experience with the Tone Zone S?  Looking at the tendencies of the D Activators and The Chopper, I notice they're all on the weak side for bass.  Both versions of Tone Zone are bass-heavy and the Tone Zone S is suggested for neck position when a warm jazz sound is required.  Would this work well in tandem with the bright humbuckers?

Distortion demo of the Tone Zone S in the bridge.
Tone Zone S in the neck

Sounds a bit muddy in the neck but the coil-tapped sound is nice.  Does the middle sound more like the neck or bridge?  I know it's going to be different due to angle but some comparison should be able to be drawn.

I have a Tone Zone S in the bridge position of my Strat.
The single coil sound is very thin and weak for my taste. I suppose this is to be expected of a narrow aperture rail coil that is meant to run in series with another coil.

FWIW, the coil is not tapped. You can split it, however.

Edit: You can hear that thinness in the video.

 

[Mnemoflame]

I have a Tone Zone S in the bridge position of my Strat.
The single coil sound is very thin and weak for my taste. I suppose this is to be expected of a narrow aperture rail coil that is meant to run in series with another coil.

FWIW, the coil is not tapped. You can split it, however.

I was thinking middle position, sandwiched between the D Activator Bridge and Neck full size humbuckers.

Pardon the terminology fail, the terms are too often treated as interchangeable.

I know it's a bit weird but I actually like that thin sound when it's split; kind of a nice contrast to how thick it can otherwise be.

 

[Mnemoflame]

Would I be risking trouble using the Gotoh 510 bridge on a Strat?  Looking at it, the only trouble I'd anticipate is needing to put a business card or summat under the back when changing strings to avoid scratches.

 

[line6man]

Would I be risking trouble using the Gotoh 510 bridge on a Strat?  Looking at it, the only trouble I'd anticipate is needing to put a business card or summat under the back when changing strings to avoid scratches.

It would look absolutely AWFUL on a Strat, IMO.
Unless there was no pickguard. Then, perhaps it might look decent.

 

[Mnemoflame]

Would I be risking trouble using the Gotoh 510 bridge on a Strat?  Looking at it, the only trouble I'd anticipate is needing to put a business card or summat under the back when changing strings to avoid scratches.

It would look absolutely AWFUL on a Strat, IMO.
Unless there was no pickguard. Then, perhaps it might look decent.

Rear rout is the way I'd like to go.  Seems criminal to cover up so much gorgeous rosewood with piece of plastic.

 

[Mnemoflame]

What would be the advantages/disadvantages of using a 250k volume pot and a 1meg pot per DiMarzio's suggestion?  I don't quite understand how the tone and volume pot values affect sound.

 

[Cagey]

It has to do with voltage drops. Long story short, the lower the pot resistance, the more signal is still pulled to ground even when you've got the volume all the way up. Depending on the pickup's impedance, it can be noticeable. But, there's a point of diminishing returns, where increasing the size of the pot doesn't drop any more signal across it rather than bleed it away. Also at that point, the response curve of the pot may be less than useful.

Usually, the volume controls for single coils are 250K pots, and 'buckers use 500K parts. Be aware that "noiseless" single coils are 'buckers. I can't imagine where a 1 meg pot would be useful. It would work, but it's unlikely you'd be happy with it. Also, volume pots should use log (audio) taper pots, while tone pots can be log or linear. Linear's better for tone, but it's a taste thing.