720 mod a must w/ hardtail??

[Isanguard]

Hey what’s up dudes. So, I’ve read a few threads about this issue here, namely one started by Cagey, but I’m still not sure where to go with this.

It will be a strat without a pick guard and I’m planning on putting an American standard style hardtail (the one hipshot makes as a retrofit for fenders). Alternatively I was considering the 2tek, but after a few days digging I cannot find how tall that bridge is anywhere. Warmoth couldn’t answer that either, but from pics it looks a bit taller than a standard hardtail.

From what I’ve read, the standard neck pocket depth has the fretboard sitting too high and the strings will nearly be laying on the fretboard even with the saddles at max height. That being said, it wasn’t clear if the 720 mod would address this issue...I feel like it should, but I can’t say for sure. And then if I do go 2tek, would the 720 mod put the fretboard too low??

Lastly, I was also curious about getting a body drilled with vintage string spacing because I kind of always feel like just a bit wider string spacing would feel great for the pick hand. BUT, does that still work with a regular neck width, ie not super wide? Is there enough room where the low and high e strings won’t just fall off the fret edges easily?

Any help y’all are able to offer is appreciated tremendously. Happy to be here and thanks in advance!!!

 

[BroccoliRob]

yo, my turtle. if the 720 mod was a 'must' then y would Big W offer hardtails on bodies with pickguards where u can't get the 720???? Now I might be zooming around rn because I just ate a couple bison burgers (the meat is high in amoeba acids, as we all know) so don't fly off a handle at me, i'm just saying. 'pologies if i came on too hard why am i still typing

 

[Isanguard]

I’m thoroughly confused, but interestingly, my nickname was bison as a kid both because I’m gigantic and my name is Isan. That being said, that was more or less what I was thinking, how if this was a problem then why would they sell hardtail strat bodies without a disclaimer. however, other Warmoth owners have talked about running into this problem on the forum here so who knows.

 

[Cagey]

To eliminate confusion, the "720 mod" was created to set the neck deeper in the pocket on "standard" Fender neck pockets by .090" (standard neck pocket depth is .625"). The reason for this is/was because that's the thickness of most pickguards. If you're not going to have a pickguard but have an overhanging fretboard (many 22-24 fret necks), you may not want to see a gap beneath it.  So, you set the thing in a slightly deeper pocket rather than modify the neck heel thickness.

Thing is, when you do that the string action gets too high, so they add a bit of angle to the pocket floor as well, bringing the angle of the neck in line with the bridge height. It's NOT to compensate for bridge height simply because you have a tall bridge.

If you have a tall bridge, then you want an "angled neck pocket", which simply adds a slightly steeper angle without deepening the pocket. They talk about it here toward the bottom of the page.

 

[Isanguard]

Right I know that’s not what the 720 mod was designed to do and I know the purpose of angled neck pockets, but you started a thread all about how a hipshot 0.175” floor hardtail and a standard strat neck pocket depth had your strings laying on the frets, more or less.

Here: https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=13689.0

So was this some kind of fluke? I just didn’t know what to make of it. Im guessing the hipshot saddles are about half the thickness of more traditional saddles being the culprit, but I wanted to make sure. I’m not too picky about low profile bridges....my current favorite is the Hipshot headless bridge, which is fairly tall.

 

[Isanguard]

actually, the 0.175" bridge, hipshot headless, and hipshot traditional all have, more or less, the same maximum string height...so I'm at a loss as to what caused this issue for you Cagey.

 

[Cagey]

I'm still not sure what happened there, either.  I measured that thing every which way but loose and couldn't find a problem. I had to have missed something. I eventually ended up re-routing the pocket floor to suit, and calling it good. I still have it around here so one of these days I'll get back into it and find out for certain, but I really feel like it needs to be refinished and I'm sure I'm not going to get to that any time soon.

 

[Isanguard]

Well I really appreciate your input here I feel a bit better about it for sure. Was routing the pocket yourself pretty tricky?

 

[Cagey]

It wasn't bad once I was set up for it, but getting there wasn't as easy as I thought. I used a neck pocket routing template, but had to modify it to have some end support to make sure the router didn't change depth as a result of gravity pulling the template down while driving the router on it. Would have resulted in an uneven pocket floor. Then, finding a mortising bit of the right dimension turned out to be tougher than I thought. Plus, there was a little trial and error finding the right angle to cut. Can't really put wood back easily, so I kinda needed to sneak up to it.

Since then, some nice "wedge" shaped shims have become available (see here) that I probably would have used instead. I've used them since, and they work quite well. Much better solution than the traditional shimming tricks.