7/8 vs Gibson conversion - retaining Strat tone

[doctorvague]

I'm 71 and have been gigging since I was 11. My hands are tired and arthritic. My favorite tone is a strat neck pickup with medium "transparent" overdrive. I would like a 24.75 scale length strat that will retain as much of that strat-neck pickup flutey tone that I love.

I messed around on Warmoth's site for a long time and landed on a 7/8 build. I realize the scale length changes things, but my reasoning was that at least if the whole guitar was shrunk down proportionately, maybe it wouldn't lose much of the tone I like. BUT, after weeks of research I realized that the 7/8 Warhead neck was only available as 24 fret. Super disappointing as all the s-styles I've played with 24 frets lose some of the tone I like due to the neck pickup being moved closer to the bridge. Looking at the 7/8 builds it's visually obvious that the pickups look pretty scrunched up toward the bridge. So with a 7/8 build there are two major changes to the proportional geometry: shorter scale AND 24 fret neck. If 22 frets was available, I'd have already ordered.

So... I'm looking at a normal s-style body with a Gibson conversion neck. In that case, speaking proportionately, the neck pickup would effectively be moved away from the bridge.

I've searched and the only Warmoth video I found demonstrating the conversion neck was a two humbucker guitar and no comparison at all between a normal neck and conversion (seems like an obvious video to make considering the many comparisons Aaron has done) - THANK YOU AARON- I'M NOT COMPLAINING!

I've searched the forum several times for this info. Do any of you have any experience with any of this and can offer any info or advice? I basically want the most strat-like sounding guitar with 24.75 scale length. I hope my explanations were clear.

TIA,
Phil

 

[supertruper1988]

Doing some measuring on my guitars, The neck pickup on a strat is about 19.25" from the nut on a 25.5" scale guitar or 75.5% of the scale length from the nut. With a conversion neck, the nut is 0.75" closer to the bridge. This will put the neck pickup at 18.5" from the nut or 74.74% of the scale length from the nut. Based on position alone, I dont think this is enough of a difference to worry about. The neck pickup would need to be moved back about 1/16" to be in the same percentage location on the 24.75" scale neck.

The bigger issue is that the strings will have less tension for the same given gauge and tuning. This will play a lot more in the feel and tone but in real world experience, its not a huge difference.

A way to test this would be to get a conversion neck and put it on a strat you already own and see if it changes the tone too much. if you keep the specs basic and generic enough to be desirable by others, you could potentially re sell the neck for minimal loss if you hate it or want to go all out and spec some more esoteric options.

Hope this helps!

Also @aarontunes a video of comparison for the conversion neck would be cool especially if you could document some of the build process like showing the neck shaft and fingerboard coming from the same planks of wood and other pseudo scientific details.

 

[aarontunes]

One thing of note: 24 frets on the 7/8 necks is not the same as 24 frets on a standard neck. Not at all.

It is 24.75" scale fret spacing superimposed on a 25.5" neck blank, which leaves room for extra frets at the end without an extended overhang.

This video explains it. Starting around 3:15.

 

[supertruper1988]

One thing of note: 24 frets on the 7/8 necks is not the same as 24 frets on a standard neck. Not at all.

I believe is the point of the post that a neck single coil sitting at ~75% of the way along the scale on a 22 fret guitar is going to be different than a neck pickup at ~78% of the scale length for a 24 fret guitar.

 

[supertruper1988]

I can make some drawings to demonstrate what I am talking about if anyone would like to see the detail of my reasoning.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

The 7/8th guitar is not going to be equivalent to a Strat. The key is to choose the right pickups to get a tone that you like. That way you can try to compensate for variations in scale lenth and pickup position. The Warmoth double trussrod is another factor which tends to add brightness to the sound. The differences are a function of three variables in this case.

 

[doctorvague]

OP here. Thanks very much for all the thoughtful replies, I truly appreciate it.
Supertruper 1988 nailed one of my original points about the relative geometry that I was trying to get across (quoted below).
Still not sure whether to go for a 7/8 full build or a conversion neck on a full size body. I did manage to dig up a couple of videos where strat pickups were used with a 7/8 build which is way more helpful than full size humbuckers or P90's, for my purposes anyway.
Thanks again!

I believe is the point of the post that a neck single coil sitting at ~75% of the way along the scale on a 22 fret guitar is going to be different than a neck pickup at ~78% of the scale length for a 24 fret guitar.

 

[JamesSan]

Just use lighter gauge strings like 8s or even 7s. The sound difference is unnoticeable but the tension is really light. Thank me later.

 

[Scab Pickens]

Just use lighter gauge strings like 8s or even 7s. The sound difference is unnoticeable but the tension is really light. Thank me later.

"The sound difference is unnoticeable" ?!?
I notice the sound difference when stepping down the string thickness. It might have something to do with the way I adjust my playing style to the new feel. There just seems to be something different about the initial attack of thicker strings. Almost like you need to dig in a bit harder to get the most out of a note. That's not a bad thing. I feel like I can control the overall dynamics better with heavier strings. One way or another, the sound seems to change. Not in a good or bad way, just different. My aging hands have been liking lighter strings these days .

 

[JamesSan]

The pickup can’t differentiate between string thickness and tension. A/B it some time and you won’t be able to tell the difference. Your hands do and it will affect your playing but sound,

 

[Scab Pickens]

I know you know it all and are super extra special ... but, I thought I made a pretty decent point about the way one actually plays the guitar differently depending on string gauge. It can change things. Anyway, no use discussing things with someone who has been everywhere and done it all. I will back down now from the wrath of the all powerful one.

 

[Scab Pickens]

@JamesSan , I'm not sure how you managed to edit your last post I replied to without it being "edited", but my last comment is now somewhat strange for the other Warmothians to read. Anyway, carry on with your digging up old threads to tell others how wrong they are. I hope it makes you feel better about yourself.

 

[Heavy Rock]

The pickup can’t differentiate between string thickness and tension. A/B it some time and you won’t be able to tell the difference. Your hands do and it will affect your playing but sound,

There's a difference in my experience. From 10s to 11s I definitely had a significant difference, especially on the low strings. Haven't tried 9s in many years and never tried 8s or 7s, so I can't speak for them and how different they are. But difference in metal mass disturbs the magnetic field in a different way for sure.

Pickup/string interaction is a double effect that most people seem to confuse actually.

A different string affects the magnetic field in two independent ways. One is by different metal mass itself and two by vibrating in a different way due to the different metal mass (plus whatever else can affect its vibration).