1 piece Goncalo versus maple back with rosewood fingerboard

[NSC217]

Are the timbres basically the same except for the warmth factor? Which would be warmer?

 

[Steve_Karl]

I don't know but I'm very interested in hearing opinions from those that do know.

Also 1 piece goncalo vs goncalo shaft + rosewood or ebony or bloodwood or pao ferrro.
I'm very interested in hearing about the possibly subtle tonal and response differences.

 

[Nando Vallart]

You've asked it on other topic, don't you? ¬¬

Goncalo Alves is a little bit warmer than MAHOGANY...

So, (EDIT) Goncalo and Maple (/EDIT) are almost on completely different ends of the chart

 

[Nando Vallart]

You've asked it on other topic, don't you? ¬¬

Goncalo Alves is a little bit warmer than MAHOGANY...

So, they're almost on completely different ends of the chart

Sorry, but that's not making sense to me. "little bit warmer" and "opposite ends of the chart" seem very contradictory.
Mohogany is closer to goncalo than it is to maple, padouk, pau ferrro, ebony etc. according to the warmoth tone-O-meter.

read again dude, I put MAHOGANY in caps lock, to be easy to understand that I'm not talking about Maple...

If the doubt is about "so they're almost...." I was saying about Maple vs Goncalo... I think this part perhaps wasn't clear, I'll change to clarify

 

[elfro89]

I've never really understood these questions, there's no way you can tell the difference just by listening to them played. I challenge you, listen to recordings of both of those necks and tell me how you know which is which... I think shape matters quite a bit in regards to sound.  :toothy12:

My Parker is made from mahogany and sounds nothing like a les paul or sg, every strat i have played sounded like a strat, sure they dont sound exactly like each other but they did have different pick-ups. I don't think the wood makes noticeable difference, I certainly wouldn't base my decision on the predicted tonal qaulities. "I love this peice of wood, but ugh, it says it sounds too warm, i want bright...ahwell."  :icon_jokercolor:

Just get what looks aesthetically pleasing and you can't go wrong, If it sounds a bit too warm or bright, eq the bugger  :laughing7:

 

[shan564]

Sorry, but that's not making sense to me. "little bit warmer" and "opposite ends of the chart" seem very contradictory.
Mohogany is closer to goncalo than it is to maple, padouk, pau ferrro, ebony etc. according to the warmoth tone-O-meter.

Maple is bright, mahogany is warm, goncalo is warmer.  So if you're looking for something slightly warmer than maple, then goncalo is not the way to go... it's slightly warmer than MAHOGANY, but much warmer than MAPLE.

If you had to gauge it relative to the common tonewoods, it'd go something like this:

BRIGHT ---- Ebony -------- Maple ----------- Alder --- Ash ----- Koa -------- Mahogany - (Goncalo would fit around here) ------- Rosewood --- WARM

So Goncalo is nowhere near maple on the spectrum; if you're looking for something slightly warmer than maple, it's definitely not the way to go.  You'd probably be better off with something like bubinga or canary, or maybe koa if you're looking for a bit more warmth.  I'm a fan of bubinga - if I were in your position, that's probably what I'd choose.

I know the Warmoth tone-o-meter puts rosewood/mahogany/koa pretty close together in terms of warmth, but the different sounds much more pronounced to my ears.

 

[elfro89]

Sorry, but that's not making sense to me. "little bit warmer" and "opposite ends of the chart" seem very contradictory.
Mohogany is closer to goncalo than it is to maple, padouk, pau ferrro, ebony etc. according to the warmoth tone-O-meter.

Maple is bright, mahogany is warm, goncalo is warmer.  So if you're looking for something slightly warmer than maple, then goncalo is not the way to go... it's slightly warmer than MAHOGANY, but much warmer than MAPLE.

If you had to gauge it relative to the common tonewoods, it'd go something like this:

BRIGHT ---- Ebony -------- Maple ----------- Alder --- Ash ----- Koa -------- Mahogany - (Goncalo would fit around here) ------- Rosewood --- WARM

So Goncalo is nowhere near maple on the spectrum; if you're looking for something slightly warmer than maple, it's definitely not the way to go.  You'd probably be better off with something like bubinga or canary, or maybe koa if you're looking for a bit more warmth.  I'm a fan of bubinga - if I were in your position, that's probably what I'd choose.

I know the Warmoth tone-o-meter puts rosewood/mahogany/koa pretty close together in terms of warmth, but the different sounds much more pronounced to my ears.

I'll give you a recording, tell me what wood my guitar is made from.

 

[shan564]

I'll give you a recording, tell me what wood my guitar is made from.

Nobody's claiming that you can identify a piece of wood from a recording... I wouldn't even be able to hear the difference between a mahogany acoustic and a rosewood acoustic from my crappy laptop speakers.  I can't speak for everybody else, but I don't care about tone for the purpose of how it sounds to everybody else - it's more for the purpose of the sound and feel when I'm playing a live solo (especially when I'm just practicing in my bedroom).  An audience won't know the difference between my Hamer Studio and my Ibanez SZ2020, but they sound/feel completely different to me (even just the acoustic sound).  Maybe it's because the Ibanez has a maple neck and the Hamer has a mahogany neck, maybe it's because the Hamer uses Honduran mahogany and the Ibanez uses African mahogany, maybe it's the body shape, or maybe I just play differently because the neck feels different, but I can say with certainty that there's a difference.

Also, tone is generally a relative thing, especially when you're trying to find a particular tone (rather than trying to describe a tone that you're heard before).  For instance, it's hard for me to describe my perfect Strat tone from scratch, but I can play another Strat and say "well, this is great, but I'd really like something with a bit less glass on the top end and a bit more punch in the midrange."  And to achieve that, I might try using a koa body or a bubinga neck.  There's no way a listener would be able to say "yeah, those are Fender vintage pickups with an alder body and a bubinga neck", but what matters to me is that I enjoy playing my guitar.

 

[elfro89]

I'll give you a recording, tell me what wood my guitar is made from.

Nobody's claiming that you can identify a piece of wood from a recording... I wouldn't even be able to hear the difference between a mahogany acoustic and a rosewood acoustic from my crappy laptop speakers.  I can't speak for everybody else, but I don't care about tone for the purpose of how it sounds to everybody else - it's more for the purpose of the sound and feel when I'm playing a live solo (especially when I'm just practicing in my bedroom).  An audience won't know the difference between my Hamer Studio and my Ibanez SZ2020, but they sound/feel completely different to me (even just the acoustic sound).  Maybe it's because the Ibanez has a maple neck and the Hamer has a mahogany neck, maybe it's because the Hamer uses Honduran mahogany and the Ibanez uses African mahogany, maybe it's the body shape, or maybe I just play differently because the neck feels different, but I can say with certainty that there's a difference.

Also, tone is generally a relative thing, especially when you're trying to find a particular tone (rather than trying to describe a tone that you're heard before).  For instance, it's hard for me to describe my perfect Strat tone from scratch, but I can play another Strat and say "well, this is great, but I'd really like something with a bit less glass on the top end and a bit more punch in the midrange."  And to achieve that, I might try using a koa body or a bubinga neck.  There's no way a listener would be able to say "yeah, those are Fender vintage pickups with an alder body and a bubinga neck", but what matters to me is that I enjoy playing my guitar.

Sure I get all that, but isn't that really the point? :doh:  if you can't tell what the wood is made of then it just goes to show that it really doesn't effect the sound enough to be all that important, If it made a damningly distinctive sound, I would agree. Unplugged every electric guitar sounds pretty much the same, if every guitar/peice of wood had its own characteristics, then surely you would notice it without the need for amplification.  I mean im not trying to be bigoted about my opinion but how do you know its the wood thats giving you all these vibes. surely what its made of isn't all that important so long as it does what you want. I can honestly say I've never played a guitar and thought, holy shit what wood is this made of? nor have I ever played a guitar and known instantly what wood it was made of? I don't think material choice is relevant so long as its good qaulity suitable for instrument manufacturing and feels amazing. Wood choice to me seems more about the aesthetics then its practical value.

Also what about guitars made from non wood? such as the early Kramers made from aluminium, they sound like ordinary guitars to me...

 

[shan564]

Sure I get all that, but isn't that really the point? :doh: 

Not to me.  If it is to you, then you shouldn't worry too much about the wood.

if you can't tell what the wood is made of then it just goes to show that it really doesn't effect the sound enough to be all that important,

I said I can't tell because it's a complex combination of sounds and I'm not an expert (and also because it doesn't translate into the recording), not because it doesn't affect the sound enough to be important.  Try playing a Tele with PAFs (alder body, maple neck), a Les Paul with PAFs (mahogany/maple body, mahogany neck), and a PRS Custom with PAFs (mahogany/maple body, maple neck) and tell me that they sound the same.

If it made a damningly distinctive sound, I would agree. Unplugged every electric guitar sounds pretty much the same,

That's not true.  At least not to my ears.  I was playing my brother's cheap electric unplugged recently, and I said "Is this poplar? I'd be really impressed if they used a good piece of poplar on such a cheap guitar."  I looked it up, and sure enough, it was poplar.  I probably wouldn't have been able to tell from a recording, but just playing it unplugged, I was pretty sure it sounded like poplar.  I liked it so much that I was tempted to take the body and give him something else, since he barely ever picks up the guitar anyway.

if every guitar/peice of wood had its own characteristics, then surely you would notice it without the need for amplification.

I have several guitars that sound noticeably different unplugged despite similar construction.  I'm not sure why your experience is different... maybe because the differences sound a bit more subtle on a solidbody guitar because they're not particularly loud.  Try comparing mahogany to maple in a hollowbody (or an acoustic), and the difference is huge.

I mean im not trying to be bigoted about my opinion but how do you know its the wood thats giving you all these vibes.

That's not bigoted... maybe a bit condescending, but not bigoted.  I know it's the wood because of considerable experimentation and comparison.  I'm a scientist by training, so I know all about controlled experiments... for instance, if you only consider unplugged sound:
- I stopped playing my Hamer SATQ (mahogany body, mahogany neck) and started favoring my Tokai (mahogany+maple body, mahogany neck) even when I was just playing unplugged in my bedroom - it simply sounded better. 
- On the other hand, my Warmoth alder/maple Strat sounds almost identical to my boutique alder/maple Strat, even when plugged in (even though the boutique Strat has much better pickups... you can hear the difference, but it's not huge). 
- My Ibanez SZ2020 (mahogany+maple body, maple neck) sounds considerably brighter than my Gibson LP (mahogany+maple body, mahogany neck), which sounds very similar to the Tokai LP (same construction).  Both the Gibson and the Tokai sound considerably ballsier than my Hamer USA Sunburst (mahogany+maple body, mahogany neck), probably because the Hamer has a thinner body and neck.
- My Belman Double Cut Grand sounds very similar to my Maton MS2000 (both with Queensland maple + Tasmanian Blackwood body, Queensland maple neck), but very different from my Hamer USA Sunburst (mahogany + maple body, mahogany neck) despite similar construction.
- My Fender MIJ Strat (basswood body, maple neck) sounds completely different from my cheap Aslin Dane Strat (alder body, maple neck) - the difference was pronounced enough so that I sold the Fender.

Anyway, that's just a quick summary.  I've done a lot more experimentation than that.  In the last year, I've gone through at least 30-40 guitars and I've compared as many of them as possible, especially unplugged.  I agree that you can't always notice the difference in a recording, but I feel a huge difference when I'm actually playing it.

surely what its made of isn't all that important so long as it does what you want.

Of course, that's true for anything... it doesn't matter what my car is made of as long as it does what I want, but I know from experience that it's a lot more likely to do what I want if it has a twin-turbo 3.0 L V6 with rear-wheel drive and 50-50 weight distribution.  I'll still try a different car, but the best car I've ever felt had those specs, so if I were building my own car, I'd use those specs.

I can honestly say I've never played a guitar and thought, holy shite what wood is this made of? nor have I ever played a guitar and known instantly what wood it was made of?

Again, our experience is different here.  When I first played my Maton MS2000 (Queensland maple + Tasmanian Blackwood), I fell in love with the combination to the point where I bought another guitar with the same woods.  Both are high-quality guitars, and they definitely have a unique sound that they both share.
Also, if I know what kind of neck a guitar has, I can usually approximate the body wood from its acoustic tone (or vice versa).  I can't identify both just from the tone, since different combinations might produce similar tones - but if you know that it has a maple neck, it's not hard to tell the difference between a body that's made of basswood, mahogany, maple, alder, or rosewood.

I don't think material choice is relevant so long as its good qaulity suitable for instrument manufacturing and feels amazing. Wood choice to me seems more about the aesthetics then its practical value.

Again, our experience is clearly different.  I'm not sure what leads you to believe what you believe, but there's a reason why Gibson spends all kinds of extra money to use Honduran mahogany over African mahogany, and why they still use maple caps even on their cheapest Les Pauls (even when they're finished in a solid color and you can't even see the grain).  And there's a reason why Fender uses basswood on cheaper instruments and alder on more expensive ones.
If you can't hear the difference, then I think that's a blessing - you don't have the constant temptation to try something different.  But just because you can't hear it doesn't mean that nobody can hear it.

Also what about guitars made from non wood? such as the early Kramers made from aluminium, they sound like ordinary guitars to me...

Haven't tried one of those yet.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Unplugged every electric guitar sounds pretty much the same,

I totally disagree with that. That is where I hear the most obvious differences between my 2 warmoth strats.
They sound much more similar when they're plugged in than they do acoustically, just sitting on my lap, with no amplification.

But note that I'm wearing earplugs when I'm playing them acoustically. The plugs diminish the ping of the pick on the strings
and allow the real tone of the instrument to show much better.

 

[NSC217]

Dude, u can absolutely hear a difference from diff pieces of wood on a strat. Recordings? Diff amps, tubes in the amps, strings, the u have the engineer tweaking the tone to make brighter warmer or whatever, then there are compression levels after the songs are mastered. Come on. LIVE TONE!

Anyway, I wasn't asking about a maple neck. A maple with rosewood fingerboard. I wonder how MUCH warmer that rosewood finger board would be in comparison to a full piece of goncalo.

According to warmoth, mahogany is warmer than goncalo and mahogany fattens the tone a lot... Goncalo too? Thanks everone!

 

[elfro89]

Sure I get all that, but isn't that really the point? :doh: 

Not to me.  If it is to you, then you shouldn't worry too much about the wood.

if you can't tell what the wood is made of then it just goes to show that it really doesn't effect the sound enough to be all that important,

I said I can't tell because it's a complex combination of sounds and I'm not an expert (and also because it doesn't translate into the recording), not because it doesn't affect the sound enough to be important.  Try playing a Tele with PAFs (alder body, maple neck), a Les Paul with PAFs (mahogany/maple body, mahogany neck), and a PRS Custom with PAFs (mahogany/maple body, maple neck) and tell me that they sound the same.

If it made a damningly distinctive sound, I would agree. Unplugged every electric guitar sounds pretty much the same,

That's not true.  At least not to my ears.  I was playing my brother's cheap electric unplugged recently, and I said "Is this poplar? I'd be really impressed if they used a good piece of poplar on such a cheap guitar."  I looked it up, and sure enough, it was poplar.  I probably wouldn't have been able to tell from a recording, but just playing it unplugged, I was pretty sure it sounded like poplar.  I liked it so much that I was tempted to take the body and give him something else, since he barely ever picks up the guitar anyway.

if every guitar/peice of wood had its own characteristics, then surely you would notice it without the need for amplification.

I have several guitars that sound noticeably different unplugged despite similar construction.  I'm not sure why your experience is different... maybe because the differences sound a bit more subtle on a solidbody guitar because they're not particularly loud.  Try comparing mahogany to maple in a hollowbody (or an acoustic), and the difference is huge.

I mean im not trying to be bigoted about my opinion but how do you know its the wood thats giving you all these vibes.

That's not bigoted... maybe a bit condescending, but not bigoted.  I know it's the wood because of considerable experimentation and comparison.  I'm a scientist by training, so I know all about controlled experiments... for instance, if you only consider unplugged sound:
- I stopped playing my Hamer SATQ (mahogany body, mahogany neck) and started favoring my Tokai (mahogany+maple body, mahogany neck) even when I was just playing unplugged in my bedroom - it simply sounded better. 
- On the other hand, my Warmoth alder/maple Strat sounds almost identical to my boutique alder/maple Strat, even when plugged in (even though the boutique Strat has much better pickups... you can hear the difference, but it's not huge). 
- My Ibanez SZ2020 (mahogany+maple body, maple neck) sounds considerably brighter than my Gibson LP (mahogany+maple body, mahogany neck), which sounds very similar to the Tokai LP (same construction).  Both the Gibson and the Tokai sound considerably ballsier than my Hamer USA Sunburst (mahogany+maple body, mahogany neck), probably because the Hamer has a thinner body and neck.
- My Belman Double Cut Grand sounds very similar to my Maton MS2000 (both with Queensland maple + Tasmanian Blackwood body, Queensland maple neck), but very different from my Hamer USA Sunburst (mahogany + maple body, mahogany neck) despite similar construction.
- My Fender MIJ Strat (basswood body, maple neck) sounds completely different from my cheap Aslin Dane Strat (alder body, maple neck) - the difference was pronounced enough so that I sold the Fender.

Anyway, that's just a quick summary.  I've done a lot more experimentation than that.  In the last year, I've gone through at least 30-40 guitars and I've compared as many of them as possible, especially unplugged.  I agree that you can't always notice the difference in a recording, but I feel a huge difference when I'm actually playing it.

surely what its made of isn't all that important so long as it does what you want.

Of course, that's true for anything... it doesn't matter what my car is made of as long as it does what I want, but I know from experience that it's a lot more likely to do what I want if it has a twin-turbo 3.0 L V6 with rear-wheel drive and 50-50 weight distribution.  I'll still try a different car, but the best car I've ever felt had those specs, so if I were building my own car, I'd use those specs.

I can honestly say I've never played a guitar and thought, holy shitee what wood is this made of? nor have I ever played a guitar and known instantly what wood it was made of?

Again, our experience is different here.  When I first played my Maton MS2000 (Queensland maple + Tasmanian Blackwood), I fell in love with the combination to the point where I bought another guitar with the same woods.  Both are high-quality guitars, and they definitely have a unique sound that they both share.
Also, if I know what kind of neck a guitar has, I can usually approximate the body wood from its acoustic tone (or vice versa).  I can't identify both just from the tone, since different combinations might produce similar tones - but if you know that it has a maple neck, it's not hard to tell the difference between a body that's made of basswood, mahogany, maple, alder, or rosewood.

I don't think material choice is relevant so long as its good qaulity suitable for instrument manufacturing and feels amazing. Wood choice to me seems more about the aesthetics then its practical value.

Again, our experience is clearly different.  I'm not sure what leads you to believe what you believe, but there's a reason why Gibson spends all kinds of extra money to use Honduran mahogany over African mahogany, and why they still use maple caps even on their cheapest Les Pauls (even when they're finished in a solid color and you can't even see the grain).  And there's a reason why Fender uses basswood on cheaper instruments and alder on more expensive ones.
If you can't hear the difference, then I think that's a blessing - you don't have the constant temptation to try something different.  But just because you can't hear it doesn't mean that nobody can hear it.

Also what about guitars made from non wood? such as the early Kramers made from aluminium, they sound like ordinary guitars to me...

Haven't tried one of those yet.

:doh:

 

[shan564]

Dude, u can absolutely hear a difference from diff pieces of wood on a strat. Recordings? Diff amps, tubes in the amps, strings, the u have the engineer tweaking the tone to make brighter warmer or whatever, then there are compression levels after the songs are mastered. Come on. LIVE TONE!

Anyway, I wasn't asking about a maple neck. A maple with rosewood fingerboard. I wonder how MUCH warmer that rosewood finger board would be in comparison to a full piece of goncalo.

According to warmoth, mahogany is warmer than goncalo and mahogany fattens the tone a lot... Goncalo too? Thanks everone!

A maple with rosewood fingerboard is still a maple neck.  The fingerboard has a relatively small impact on your tone; goncalo or mahogany will both be warmer/fatter than maple + rosewood.  Or did you mean you're debating between maple + goncalo vs. maple + rosewood?  If that's the case, then the rosewood board will be slightly warmer, but it won't be a big difference.

 

[NSC217]

No, I meant rosewood/maple. What would u suggest? Somebody mentioned bulbinga (haha, did I spell that right :tard or canary. I just hope ur right about fingerboard not having large impact because rosewood is warm! Thank you! U rule!

 

[Cagey]

A maple with rosewood fingerboard is still a maple neck.  The fingerboard has a relatively small impact on your tone; goncalo or mahogany will both be warmer/fatter than maple + rosewood.  Or did you mean you're debating between maple + goncalo vs. maple + rosewood?  If that's the case, then the rosewood board will be slightly warmer, but it won't be a big difference.

I tend to agree with that. I've found that the 'board has more to do with feel, with added articulation from the harder woods such as ebony when using some techniques such as hammers and pulls than anything else. The overall tone of the guitar doesn't seem to change much. Same with stainless or gold frets. For general playing, you can't hear any difference. But, start with the hammering/tapping/pulling, and you know something is different. It's almost like you've got a built-in compressor, because those notes start showing up very clearly rather than sounding like ghost notes you're getting by mistake. Of course, that has a down side as well - you'd better be accurate, because there's no hiding unless you're using so much gain that everything's reduced to cheese anyway.

 

[NSC217]

My original guitar neck which I really liked was maple/rosewood and it was bright but the end of each note was warm if that makes sense? Would that be consistent with bubinga? My new neck has fatter back and thus more maple which is why the notes don't end with that warmth... I think.

 

[shan564]

No, I meant rosewood/maple. What would u suggest? Somebody mentioned bulbinga (haha, did I spell that right :tard or canary. I just hope ur right about fingerboard not having large impact because rosewood is warm! Thank you! U rule!

If you want to feel the difference between maple/maple and maple/rosewood, go to your nearest guitar store and check out a couple of Strats or Teles.  I don't notice a big difference aside from the feel.

The little bit of warmth at the end of each note might be due to a lot of factors - body, pickups, bridge, your fingers, or even just your pick or your strings.  Bubinga will be a bit warmer than maple/rosewood, but that's not all - it'll resonate more in the midranges with a relatively bright sound, while maple accentuates more of the high-end brightness.  If that's what you're looking for, you'll probably be happy with bubinga... but if you want that same high-end brightness with added low-end warmth (more like a Les Paul), bubinga probably won't do it... I'd say the best way to get that might be a mahogany neck with an ebony fretboard (a la Gibson), or maybe a koa neck with any sort of fretboard (although that's a bit more expensive).

 

[NSC217]

Thanks... Though maggoty is very warm n fat, so the ebony fretboard would have to be present enough to balance it out...

Or maybe I like a warm tone with a bright after taste (any diff? )

 

[shan564]

Thanks... Though maggoty is very warm n fat, so the ebony fretboard would have to be present enough to balance it out...

Or maybe I like a warm tone with a bright after taste (any diff? )

Well yeah, but you'll have to describe your desired tone a bit more precisely than just "bright" vs "warm"... there's a lot more to it than that.  Compared to a maple/rosewood or maple/maple neck, what exactly is it that you're looking for?