1 7/8 neck - my first custom - experienced suggestions welcome

[sully]

Greetings.

I am embarking on a custom build. It is due to my  really large hand/fingers. I have been playing for about a year. I have put my hands on a good number of electrics and acoustics. After struggling to fit my fingers into various chord shapes (open and barre), I have submitted to defeat. My fingers are simply too large for 1 11/16 necks. I experimented with a nylon acoustic, and found it was a world of difference. (do note, even physically squishing my fingers with my right hand, my fngers still mute surrounding strings - think A shape barre on 9th fret - they simply are too "wide")

So now I am going to drop a good deal of money into a custom neck. I had thought to get a cheaper guitar body, and bolt the neck on, but after lots of research, unless I were to phyiscally measure the neck pocket, the mating of neck to body is questionable. This is my viewpoint based on talking to warmoth and "reading between the lines". How accurate that is might be debatable.

I do not want a strat body. My brother has an ibanez that is quite like the Soloist body, offering just a little more room for my big mitts, so I was thinking of that style. I do not really need a body, but I am able to make the purchase, and rather than dork around with other bodies hoping to find both a body/hardware that I will like, it might be easier to just have one built.

At this point, having read as much as I can stand and talking to as many people who are either seasoned musicians or have GAS syndrome or have had customs made (not warmoth, but luthier made), I am to the point that I have a rough idea.

* I have read a lot of controversy over Warmoth and USAGC. I see many positive and negatives for both. I am really not devoted to either, but Warmoth seems to offer more of what I "think" I want, so I am leaning that way heavily.

Anyway, I was hoping to try a neck with no finish, as my hands do sweat a lot and I have experienced sticking to finishes. After looking at the options, I was thinking Canary for the neck wood - in a Super Wide.

I am concerned with both tone and weight. I had a used EPI SG that was really neck heavy. Nice access to lower frets, but annoying to play. So, while I understand the tone of canary is near that of maple, it is likely a little heavier - which brings me to the fretboard.

I understand (or have read) that Warmoth fretboards are a little thick. Maybe not, it seems that way though from reading. Anyway, I do like a more gritty tone, not the bright stuff. Think cedar/mahagony acoustic vs spruce acoustic. Initially rosewood came to mind for that classic flavor. But, when throwing around money, what is an extra 100$. I have noticed the grain of rosewood being more open, and looked into ziricote. A nice looking wood but that isn't as important as keeping a good tone (or an abstract thought of what the tone might sound like) and maybe having the benefit of a smoother/harder surface.

Now the weight issues arises. Because these woods only come in Pro series, that means the double truss rod. I really don't care one way or the other, as long as it works. But I do care about the added wieght. I realize a light set of tuners will help. So, with this combination, would it be heavy enough to warrant a heavy body?

My body wood was going to be alder or swamp ash, with a laminate, maybe koa. I suppose when spending this kind of money I would rather have the wood show that cover it up with a solid paint. I like wood or stained wood so...  Anyway I got to looking and though, why not just do a solid body without the laminate for basically the same price. LPs use mahogany body and maple/rosewood necks. If the canary is = to maple, and ziricote = rosewood (approximately) then it would make sense that a solid limba or mahagony would do well, plus would be med-heavy for the neck.

But, I don't know as I haven't played any exotics.

Tone - is this combination theory I have logical? You will never know the exact tone, I know, and hardware makes a difference too. I am simply following the trail of which exotic sounds like which standard, and matching them accordingly.

Weight - are these wood combinations actual weights what I beleive them to be in terms of matching neck weight to body weight?

I have saved the dough to purchase and outfit a superwide. But, I don't want to make a purchase that wastes my hard earned money either. That is why this is such a long read - Too many detail I left out already but also too many details to "guess" at.

I should state, I don't really care how it looks. I am building a guitar that is hopefully what I want, and I realize it will be of value only to me most likely. That is the whole point I guess, not a wow factor or resale value item. I just want to make the right purchase, and get a guitar that sounds somewhat like what I want.

Thanks for any feedback.

Sul.

 

[stubhead]

Les Pauls are classically made with mahogany body and neck, maple cap and rosewood board. As far as neck-heaviness is concerned, the quickest way to eliminate the concern is to simply choose a body shape with a long upper horn - Strat or soloist. All the complicated calculations are pretty much sidestepped, there. And it seems to me that staying "normal" takes care of a lot of other concerns. Get a maple neck, with a rosewood or (my preference) pau ferro board, or if you wish a naked neck, canary. And "stay in the middle" too on a body - ash, alder, even mahogany. The advantage there is that if for some reason, your ears, your amps, the latitude, whatever, if you have a guitar constructed in a superlatively-average way and it should strike you as surprisingly shrill, or muddy, the inbetween-ness of the structural wood will allow for an easy "re-tune" by changing a capacitor or two or swapping out a pickup or the likes.

In a curious way, when someones tries to define "great tone", it usually means... average tone. Not too trebly, not too bassy, not too soft, not too hard, just... nice.  arty07: In an ass-kicking way...

One thing you will want to think about vis-a-vis large hands is whether you have really long fingers (too) or just.. fat ones. I mean there are people like Steve Vai and Paul Gilbert who have those superlong skinny Alaskan King Crab type fingers, and then there are people who just have fat ones, like Slash. And people like Hendrix, who had long and fat ones. And lest anybody thinks it matters too much (or serves as an excuse) you have people like Danny Gatton and Shawn Lane who had the tiny vienna sausage fingers and could still howl with the best. Mmmm... vienna sausage... crab legs... remind me to eat before posting!

 

[Shadow]

While I do not own a warmoth myself, I do agree with the above, it's pretty hard to be neck heavy with the longer-horned bodies. These would include VIPs, Strats, and Soloists.

As for body woods, Korina definitely looks awesome, but there are still quite a number of mahogany builds around here too. That one is more so your call. Weight wise you could check the showcase with the korina filter on, they seem to come out around 4 pounds maybe a little more (ignore that first VIP, it looks a little bit heaver). Also if you're looking at the showcase keep in mind the trem route as well.

For necks, I personally would say if you find maple sticky go raw. Now as for raw necks, canary is nice and some one will probably (*cough* Cagey *cough* :icon_jokercolor comment on pao ferro as well. The pickups will affect the warmth and tone quite a bit too so don't be afraid to go a little warmer or brighter on one because you can compensate with the other. Keep in mind that you can warm your signal, but can't really add that bite if your guitar is really warm sounding.

I can't comment on nut width because I have medium/short fingers that are fairly slim so... (Though I'm still cramped on a 1 5/8"). Speaking of neck though, I'm sure you have seen this: http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/BackContours.aspx but if you find a thickness that works for you then you can probably get a similar one as an option.

Edit: Sorry, about that, welcome to the forum! :toothy11:

 

[scartozi]

One of my guitars has a Warmoth Superwide neck on it....I love it! I have large hands/fingers and mainly play fingerstyle so the extra room on the 1 7/8" neck makes it really nice. I haven't played it in a while since it's getting refinished. I'm a huge fan of wenge necks, sturdy and very smooth/fast to play, I've never had a problem with my hands sticking. I have an 1 3/4" wenge neck on my main guitar, ebony fretboard, alder body, graph tech saddles, brass bridge and black buffalo horn nut and love the way the guitar sounds, very clear, warm-ish tone. There are quite a few choices when it comes to neck wood....pick one you like.

have you tried any acoustic guitars with 1 7/8" nuts?

 

[sully]

@StubHead

Weight is somewhat of a concern. I have an old Vester strat style, which is really have. That was the first that I borrowed. Not a great guitar, but beat buying one before I knew I liked playing That is maybe 10lb I am guessing, definately heavy. I have been playing an EPI SG that is neck heavy, very annoying. So the weight issues are not really heavy, but moreso not neck heavy.

I have been playing an Ibanez GiO (older) in strat shape, maybe 7-8lb, very nice. I bought a Godin Exit22, and liked it a lot, but that is when I became convinced that unless I am 100% dead on with my finger tips hitting the strings/frets exact, there is no way I am going to be able to play without muting strings. I returned it and decided maybe I should get a fat neck.

Yes, my hands are large and long. I am 6'4" @ 240lb, with left hand spread (middle of index to middle of pinkie) of 8.25 inch. The thickness is roughly 1/2 inch if I push my fingers very hard down on a table and measure from table to top of nail. Like I said, I compressed fingers 2,3,4 together with my right hand and placed them on fret 9, and in no way can I not mute strings. I would much rather buy off the shelf, as I could play any guitar really, but who am I kidding, if an 1 11/16 gives me problems, they all will. I have this feeling that had I started playing as a young man, instead of a 41 yr old, maybe my fingers would have been accustomed to the smaller confines, but as it is, after a year, I don't see any progress at all in that department. And trust me, I put a lot of practice in, every day if I can. My wife and kids can attest to that lol.

I like your advice on staying in the middle for body wood. Makes sense. I was assuming that ash/alder might be too light since I am limited to the heavier truss rod with the wide neck, esp if I go with neck woods that are perhaps heavier than normal maple/rosewood.

And tone wise, you are correct too. I like the darker stuff that cries for the blues. I definately want to get wood that enhances that, even if it has to be tweaked a little bit with hardware or caps.

@Shadow

Korina does look awesome. However, that is only a side benefit for what I was looking to do. I used to refinish chris craft wood boats back in my younger years, and we used a lot of honduras mahagony, and I think if memory serves phillipian. I remember even then, some 20 yrs ago, we would have to be picky to get the good stuff for planking and esp for the larger stringers. I have read about the old supplies being gone, and had expereinced that long ago, so I tend to believe that story. I don't know about african mahogony but it did make sense that it might be a bit of a crap shoot. I guess I just figured maybe Limba might be more uniform from piece to piece, although that is only my wishful thinking I guess.

I do find necks that have a finish to be sticky.. every single one I have tried. Likely it is because the only place I sweat is the palm of my hands. Rarely anywhere else. I used to play foosball competetively, and had to wear a batting glove because my hands would sweat so much i had no grip on the rods. I was hoping a raw neck would be less sticky. At least, I have read that in multiple places.

Interesting you point out that one could warm the signal, but cannot add the bite. I hadn't thought about it like that. I assume you mean the higher register and snap that maple type woods would give?

Regarding neck thickness, so far I have had no problem. I have a yamaha acoustic, with probably a standard C shape, and I can easily reach everything. The Ibanez I have been using is really flat/thin, and it also is fine. That might change with an extra 3/16 of nut width, so I was thinking standard thin might be in line.

Thanks for the welcome !

@Scartozi

I play limited fingerstyle, although I do like to mess around with it. Actually I try to play as many styles as I can and switch off between acoustic and electric, because I don't want to get too used to either, because I like to play both - if that makes sense.

I have tried a nylon acoustic which was either 1 7/8 or 2". Once I played that, my mind was pretty much made up. Either struggle with normal necks and always have the muted strings as part of my sound, or step up to a wide neck and have the clean sound, or at least have the opportunity to be able to play clean, even if my fingers don't do what I want them to yet lol.

I greatly appreciate the time you all have taken to pass along your knowledge. I am a big believer in gathering as many viewpoints as possible to gain a clearer understanding, so this is great.

Sul.

 

[Shadow]

The word I wanted to use in place of bite was eluding me, but yes that is what I had meant. If you choose to go with a brighter neck you can tone it down with a cap to kill some of the treble if you want as well. However there are some really nice warm raw neck woods as well, such as Wenge and Goncalo Alves or even a Rosewood for a shaft. Wenge I'm sure has a bit of a different feel to it, being so open grained, but I haven't heard any complaints from the other members.

Somehow I mis-read your first post and thought you said the necks were thick, not sure what I was thinking there. The fretboards are 1/4" I believe. On the subject of necks, a lot of people here really like the stainless frets too. They are supposed to be a bit smoother for bending and they wear longer.

If my memory serves me right, Cagey has a light ash strat body with a pao neck and locking tuners, and no apparent neck dive, so I wouldn't worry about neck dive very much with a soloist.

Now some of the other members here have tried quite a few of the different neck and body woods so hopefully they will chime in soon.

 

[stubhead]

To a large extent, people will find a way to play what they have, there are certain compromises or limitations, but you just play around them. I can't image a fat-finger guy playing an E chord at the 9th fret by putting down a finger each on strings 2, 3 and 4. You just catch the E on the 2nd string at the 7th fret with your index, and the 9th fret is a barre with your ring finger. If what you mean by "muted" is that you can't bend your ring finger back enough to let the 1st string peep out, you just leave it out. My fingers don't bend that way, and I never had to stop and think about it. Play something else! I never had anyone complain that they missed hearing that note. The guy I'm playing with now calls himself a "busker" and that's pretty much what he does. He's got his 12 or 15 chords, he knows a million songs and strangely enough, they all take those 12 chords!  :laughing3: Whenever I try to show him some new-fangled stuff, he just looks at me like, "hey - that's YOUR job..."

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever encountered a neck heavy LP though.  The body mass of an LP is exceptional compared to mose flat top solidbodies.

 

[sully]

To a large extent, people will find a way to play what they have, there are certain compromises or limitations, but you just play around them. I can't image a fat-finger guy playing an E chord at the 9th fret by putting down a finger each on strings 2, 3 and 4. You just catch the E on the 2nd string at the 7th fret with your index, and the 9th fret is a barre with your ring finger. If what you mean by "muted" is that you can't bend your ring finger back enough to let the 1st string peep out, you just leave it out. My fingers don't bend that way, and I never had to stop and think about it. Play something else! I never had anyone complain that they missed hearing that note. The guy I'm playing with now calls himself a "busker" and that's pretty much what he does. He's got his 12 or 15 chords, he knows a million songs and strangely enough, they all take those 12 chords!  :laughing3: Whenever I try to show him some new-fangled stuff, he just looks at me like, "hey - that's YOUR job..."

I am in agreement with this. There are some things that perhaps cannot be done and some things that just require more time to learn. I accept that.

Maybe I should describe this better, perhaps I am missing something.

If I take the open A chord shape with fingers 2,3,4 on fret 2, I can play the A without muting strings only if I am on top dead center with my fingers. If my fingers are not coming down on the strings at a 90 deg angle, then muting occurs. This happens when I am squishing these 3 fingers together with my right hand. If I move that shape down past the 4th or 5th fret, then no matter how I position them in regards to angling or layering, even  when compressing them with my right hand, my fingers physically touch other strings. * note this is using fingers 2,3,4 in-line, stacked on each other - so finger 2 on D, 3 on G, 4 on B.

An alternate shape is finger 3 on D, 2 on G and 3 on B. Again, this works up on the first few frets, but below 5th fret I mute other strings. This shape is also not as easy to barre with, although if it worked without muting I would spend the time to get it working well.

I forgot to mention that my middle finger is the widest side to side, being about 7/8 inch (just a mm under that probably, hard to measure). The pinkie is the narrowest at 3/4 inch. Wide, thick, fat and long. Maybe palming a basketball isn't such a good thing? LOL.

Anyhow, I realize I don't have to play perfect, and likely never will. I can be as anal as the next guy I guess, but I just think I ought to be able to do some of the more basic fingerings without having to compromise. Some of the more less used shapes, yeah they might never be perfect which is find. But a barred A shape I would expect to need. The minor shapes don't tend to cause as many issues. But it isn't just barres either. Even open shapes, unless I am extremely focused on bringing my shapes down at a 90 angle to the board, will mute other strings.

I watch many other players who are near my level or very experienced, and all of them so far don't seem to have this problem. For them, if they are moving very fast, they can get that sloppy muting sound. But if they are focusing, it seems so natural for them to have clean notes. I guess that is what I am hoping I can achieve as well, rather than having to have a 100% perfect form that is so unforgiving.

If that makes sense.

Thanks again for the replies.

Sul.

 

[scartozi]

I know what you mean by coming straight down with your finger to fret a string. The ends of my fingers aren't points but more flat. So if I come straight down on the "A" string with my index finger on an 1 11/16" neck, with just enough pressure my fingertip has absolutely no room for error and any movement it will touch the strings on either side. With my middle finger it's much worse. Can I play blues or rock on an 1 11/16".....yes, can I play intricate fingerstyle on it...yes, but I'm constantly hitting other strings and that makes it quite frustrating. So my 1 3/4" and 1 7/8" work for me. Some people have different pickups on multiple guitars depending on what style music they are playing, I have different necks.

When I ordered my 1 3/4" neck I went back and forth for quite some time wondering what size I wanted. I was very close to ordering the superwide the first time. But, I'd always played acoustics with 1 3/4" so I knew that would work. Later I purchased a superwide from a fellow forum member and love it. If you have a Guitar Center or Samash close to you I'd suggest calling them to see if they have any steel string guitars with the 1 7/8" and go try them out. Plus that'll give you time to check out some neck contours too. My superwide is Standard Thin contour....so is my 1 3/4. A new neck isn't chump change so play as many as you can before you order. 

 

[Cagey]

Y'know... 1-11/16" wide is only 1/16" narrower than 1-3/4" (1-12/16"). When you divide that up between 6 strings (5 spaces) you're only talking about .062"/5 or ~.013" difference. That's the width of a typical high B string. If you're hitting strings you don't mean to, it's probably not the spacing's fault. It's inaccurate finger placement. I don't mean inaccurate as in sloppy, just that if things are that close, you're in trouble right from the git-go. Simply pressing down slightly harder is going to cause your fingertip to "bloom" a bit more than that and get in the way of things.

I've found that one of the things you learn over time is after playing a chord a bajillion times, you realize that some strings are out of play depending on the chord and how you finger it, so it's ok to let some fingers touch strings that they're not in control of because they're being fretted by other fingers forward of where they're being touched. It lets you get away with some slop because the influence of the offending finger is superseded by another finger's action.

Does that make sense?

 

[stubhead]

I'm still confused by the A chord, I guess. Using three fingers at the 2nd fret to play the 4th, 3rd and 2nd strings is like... a songbook chord or something. And it ties up too many fingers. Every rock guitarist I've ever heard of or played with plays an A chord with: the 5th string open A, and barre the 4th, 3rd and 2nd string with the index finger at fret 2. Specifically because that leaves your ring finger to play at the 4th fret on the 4th string, that finger on-and-off-and-on-and-off IS your basic rock  'n' roll boogie beat. With the index finger just staying there you've got a bunch of notes to hammer on and pull off with all your other three fingers. You don't worry about the missing high E string, because if want an E in that position you catch it on the 2nd string with your little finger at fret 5. And  - then you can slide your index finger up to the 5th fret and there you do add in the 1st string - now you're holding down the top 4 strings. You can put your middle finger down at the 6th fret on the 3rd string to make a major A chord, or - use your ring finger at the 7th fret, 3rd string and bend it up a whole tone to get the unison.

That's like rock 'n' roll 101. There must be thousands of songs that use it. I'm really sure that if a video came out with Keith Richards or Billy Gibbons or somebody using three fingers at fret 2 to make a chord, the nets would be a-twitter. You may have heard the term "boxes" used to describe the available note at a certain location, and they're pretty much all based on an index finger barring across several strings. Except when they're not, but that's R'n'R 201. :toothy12:

 

[Cagey]

It's like many things. There's the "right" way, then there's the practical way. Cooking is a good example. You can slavishly follow a recipe or, once you know how things work, you can follow your instincts. If you cannot move outside a recipe, you're doomed to failure more often than not because you can't compensate for unusual circumstances. As usual, it requires practice. Experience teaches.

But, when you're being formally taught, you get taught the "right" way because you have to know what's right before you can succeed at doing things wrong.

 

[sully]

@scartozi

I have no large stores near me. I have played a nylon acoustic that is either 1 7/8 or 2". It is a world of difference. I have also considered going 1 3/4. As noted by Cagey though, that is only 1/16 more space overall.

My only concern about the super wide is that the fret board hangs out over the neck near the pocket, because the neck is still sized for standard bolt pattern. Does that excess fret board that hangs over the neck give any negative effects? Ever heard of that area being problematic after time?

@Cagey

Yes that does make sense. My hopes were that a wide neck might at least allow me the opportunity to hit clean sounds, should I be able to train my fingers to do what they are supposed to do.

@StubHead

As Cagey eludes to, I am being formally taught. I do want a good foundation of the "proper" way, even if that is somewhat of an abstract idea. The reason I take lessons is to make sure I don't develop bad habits that will be hard to break later, if that makes sense.

Regarding the A chord, I only referenced that because doing a traditional open A or a barred A, you use 3 fingers for the 3 fretted strings.  My issue is not that I have to play an A that way, as I know there are alternatives, but that I cannot play them the traditional way because of how my fingers mute other strings.

Now all of this is just a beginners perspective too don't forget. I put in usually 2hrs a day, sometimes more, sometimes less. As I learn more, I go over it all as much as I can. In minor penta scales and modes this isn't a huge problem, so I think I tend to practice those the most. In chording, I get pretty frustrated that I put loads of time into it, practice over and over, and cannot seem to stop muting other strings, even ones that really should pose no problems. At least when I played that acoustic nylon it sure seemed I had much less muting..

I am here to learn. I do not think I know it all, because I clearly don't. I value everyones input and thank you for your time to share.

Sul.

 

[sully]

Since I am quite new to this, let me ask some further questions. I assume since most here are owners of warmoth products, this is a more real world experience place to get answers, rather than opinions based on here-say (although I am sure there is some biased-ness)

Would it be accurate that the neck likely induces more tone than the body because of the greater amount of string area it is in proximity to? (realizing electronics play a large role in tone)

If a neck is contructed of a brighter tone wood, say maple, how much does the fretboard wood influence this? That is, suppose a maple neck with a rosewood fretboard -- for the body wood then, would you be more apt to choose a warmer wood because of the maple, or a more neutral wood because of the rosewood?

Yes, I understand it is not an acoustic. But Warmoth offers so many choises, it seems wise to make the most knowledgable choise one can.

Regarding the double trussrod on the warmoth pro necks (like the superwide), is there any truth that it can make a neck sound "not so good"? I have read that many times, but been taking a few grains of salt with that.

Regarding the bridge - I have read to get vintage so the saddles line the strings up over the pickup posts. I was actually looking at a TOM model. But honestly don't know much about them to know why they would or would not be a good thing over a vintage. I had thought about a trem bridge, but having never really had one to use, don't know that I really need one either.

Regarding pots and pickups - I have been reading on push/pulls for use with HBs. That interests me. I am a tech geek, so I have done my share of soldering. But, is there any considerations about how this might change how many holes you have drilled? Is there any reason why you would not want the standard 5way blade switch? Perhaps some micro pots or other reasoning?

Again, I am just trying to glean as much info as I can from those who have already been there and done that.

Sul.

 

[scartozi]

Y'know... 1-11/16" wide is only 1/16" narrower than 1-3/4" (1-12/16"). When you divide that up between 6 strings (5 spaces) you're only talking about .062"/5 or ~.013" difference. That's the width of a typical high B string. If you're hitting strings you don't mean to, it's probably not the spacing's fault. It's inaccurate finger placement. I don't mean inaccurate as in sloppy, just that if things are that close, you're in trouble right from the git-go. Simply pressing down slightly harder is going to cause your fingertip to "bloom" a bit more than that and get in the way of things.

I agree but I also disagree :icon_biggrin: It also depends on the nut itself and how much space is left between both "E" strings and the end of the fret. On my 1 3/4" I have it set pretty close to the end to get as much room as I can and not have the string falling off when fretted. So that 1/16" can vary up to an 1/8" depending on how the nut is cut and that can make a huge difference. I'm curious so I'll have to break out the nut spacing ruler and measure my 1 3/4 against a standard 1 11/16. Same goes for the string spacing at the bridge. I was use to playing a 2 3/8" (acoustic) and was comfortable. Then I switched to electrics and went to 2 1/4" which to a little getting use to but I'm comfortable now. If I try to play fingerstyle on a standard bridge spacing (2 1/16) it's very tight and I don't have the freedom. It doesn't mean my technique is bad, it just means I have big hands and playing with my thumb, index, middle and ring fingers at the same time on a standard bridge spacing is frustrating so I don't play that style of music on those guitars.

Although you may be able to uncomfortably squeeze into those pants from high school doesn't mean you should wear them everyday....buy something that "fits" and enjoy it :icon_thumright:

Sully: The part of the neck that has a slight overhang is very sturdy and I don't ever see having issues with it, and it does not get in the way when playing up the neck....don't really notice it. Personally I would go for the 1 3/4" neck and vintage spacing bridge....but that's what works for "me".

 

[stubhead]

Would it be accurate that the neck likely induces more tone than the body because of the greater amount of string area it is in proximity to? (realizing electronics play a large role in tone)

If a neck is constructed of a brighter tone wood, say maple, how much does the fretboard wood influence this? That is, suppose a maple neck with a rosewood fretboard -- for the body wood then, would you be more apt to choose a warmer wood because of the maple, or a more neutral wood because of the rosewood?

Yes, I understand it is not an acoustic. But Warmoth offers so many choises, it seems wise to make the most knowledgable choise one can.

Regarding the double trussrod on the warmoth pro necks (like the superwide), is there any truth that it can make a neck sound "not so good"? I have read that many times, but been taking a few grains of salt with that.

Regarding the bridge - I have read to get vintage so the saddles line the strings up over the pickup posts. I was actually looking at a TOM model. But honestly don't know much about them to know why they would or would not be a good thing over a vintage. I had thought about a trem bridge, but having never really had one to use, don't know that I really need one either.

Regarding pots and pickups - I have been reading on push/pulls for use with HBs. That interests me. I am a tech geek, so I have done my share of soldering. But, is there any considerations about how this might change how many holes you have drilled? Is there any reason why you would not want the standard 5way blade switch? Perhaps some micro pots or other reasoning?

There's enough questions to feed months of opining, but I'll try to start small...

Necks definitely have a larger effect on tone than bodies in a solidbody. I don't really ascribe a "personality" to different woods, but if you look at it terms of density and mass it's easy to see why a maple neck, being denser, is going to produce a "harder" sound - quicker attack, and less absorption of frequencies (and higher frequencies are absorbed much more readily, as their waves are shorter). There is sort of a general continuum in all of this, with one end being the harder, quicker, less-absorbed sound, and the other end is the mellower, warmer, softer sound.

Maple= hard
single coils= hard
25.5" scale= hard

mahogany= soft
humbucking= soft
24.75" scale= soft

There's no, like, LAW about it, but it's pretty clear that if you start with certain elements of a design that lean towards the hard side of things, you can compensate for it by "softening" the design with something else. As you can see, the first category largely describes a Fender, and the second category describes a Gibson, and the last 30 years or so of instrument design has largely been about the mongrel breeds. And, we haven't even gotten to amplification, speaker choice etc. I personally find good success with a basically "hard", clean signal into amplification that rolls off some of the high end; others do things otherwise.

I will say this: in a very large percentage of the time when I hear a certain guitar, pickup or other originating source called "THIN", it is usually a design that is putting out plenty of midrange and bass too, but simply a higher amount of treble proportionately than that particular amplification system is then set for. And if you plug in any competently-made instrument of any wood or pickup configuration and it can't be made to sound either muddy or shrill, your amp doesn't have enough adjustment range. You have to find the ends to know the middle...

You can see that from MY perspective, the double truss rod that Warmoth uses on some necks can't be "good" or "bad", no more that a low-capacitance guitar cord can be the "best." The double truss rod definitely falls into the "hard", "bright", "clear" family of things, and if you live in a world where "warm" and "woody" epitomize perfection, the double truss rod is "bad." I like them because they keep the neck straight and you don't have to adjust them, and if I wanted a warm 'n' woody beast I'd think about mahogany, humbuckings, short-scale as well as, possibly, a single truss rod. But I grew up playing bass in the era where just about all the old Fender basses were hitting the skids because of warped necks, and I like straight necks. (The astounding re-discovery of tens of thousands of "authentic" vintage Fender basses, all with straight necks, that started about ten years ago, is another matter entirely).

Another general dichotomy lies in bridge width. The original Fender bridge width was 2 7/32". In 1950, '52, '55, they were trying to sell guitars largely to people who didn't have electrics. The bridge width was about as wide as possible to match up with their neck. However, when lighter strings and string bending became popular, larger frets began to seem like a good idea too. And there's a problem when you increase fret height without increasing the width - that is, when you round over the fret ends of higher ones, it decreases the length of the string contact area. And since this was already marginal with the original Fender width, people were either forced to decide which "E" string was going to fall off the edge - top or bottom - or go to a narrower bridge. And the narrower bridge is a very common choice, The Hipshots, Gotohs and Gibsons are all 2 1/8" to 2 1/16", and even Fender's own "modern" bridge is 2 1/8." Now personally, I wish there was a far more concerted push towards wider necks - wide at the bottom where it's needed, without being wider at the nut. However, this may edge over to a custom build, for now anyone buying from Warmoth, USA Custom, Allparts or anywhere else has to deal with what is.

There are plenty of "narrow" bridges designed for the string-through style of bridge, any bridge designed with individual string heght adjustment will do. The classic Gibson bridge is called a "tunematic" and there is a slight issue with using one with a Warmoth neck. And that is, the authentic Gibson tunematic and every other maker's version of it is designed for a 12" radius fingerboard, and the standard Warmoth neck has a compound radius, from 10" at the nut to 16" and the base. And the nature of the neck is conical, so you actually need a bridge set for a radius of around 19". Now, it's not hard to reshape the saddles of a tunematic, and it's equally possible to order a Warmoth neck with a straight radius, but it is one thing to be aware of. I prefer both individual string height adjustment bridges and a straight-radius neck, but if I had to do it, I would re-grind the tunematic saddles. THis is another area where it seems the manufacturers are missing an opportunity - why isn't there 16" and 19" radius tunematics? There are plenty of guitars that need them.

Regarding holes in the body (I'm about wore out here), I personally find that I prefer individual mini-switches if I'm getting complicated wiring. I find it easier to understand what the signal is doing if it's kept in some sort of linear fashion. I also don't like the feel of the push-pull pots, they're wobbly-feeling and that's not comforting. But I have NO "need" for vintage appearance or authenticity; other do.

 

[ezas]

Well put! In the end you make your choices and throw them in blender of building a guitar and see what falls out at the end, but the 'design' doesn't have to stop there. You can still fine tune.

On my 7/8's baby strat I tried a few different sets of strings. I swapped out the 250k volume pot for a 300k and changed from a .022uF tone cap to a .01uF. I also added a slightly hotter bridge PU (of the same make/model). I switched from a parallel wired treble bleed setup to a series wired treble bleed kit (that was after trying the 50's wiring mod). That and a lot of time adjusting the pickups and I really/really/really like the way it sounds now. I also changed what Pick I use now.

 

[sully]

@StubHead

Thanks a lot for such a long response. There is a lot of good info in what you wrote, which actually provokes more questions - but really makes me step back and evaluate things. Some of that I was not aware of, so will have to check it out more.

This thread is exactly what I hoped it would be. People who have been there and done that sharing thier opinions and advices. It is so much better than the other ways of gather info, seeking one fact at a time, or reading a review or such.

* and so we are clear, I know much of this is objective and abstract, learned and formed with experience. I don't expect anyone to give me a concrete answer on much of it. But everyones opinion, when combined, starts to draw a more accurate picture of things that are abstract. At least, that is how I try to use such information

Thanks again.

Sul.

 

[rickl1098]

  Go as wide as your hand will allow. Those little increments, width of a b string etc... make a world of difference. I could play an 11/16 neck if I had too but a 5/8 feels a hundred times more comfortable. I will say, I have short skinny fingers and I still have the same problem you do. If I don't come down 90 degrees to the fretboard I'm muting strings and it just seems like my fingers are too big but they're not. It's probably a technical issue as much as anything. I should have plenty of room with my tiny fingers but I don't. If  I  practice very deliberate finger placement I can get the strings to ring out, but on the fly I still get a lot of muting. I have friends I can play circles round when it comes to riffing and soloing but put in some clean arpeggiated or strummed chords and they sound much better than I do.