wound G, locking tuners

[swarfrat]

Ok - so, so I've been playing with chord melody stuff in P4 for a bit. I used to play 11's a long time ago, 25.5" scale. I went down to 10's because I went through a phase where I didn't play a lot, and just couldn't jump into 11's with no calluses. Anyway - I'm playing 1) differently, and 2) on a 24.75" scale guitar. I bought a pack of 11's and 12's today to try out. I actually liked the 12's a lot - I was kinda scared to try it, but it sounded and played wonderfully.

Unfortunately, I snapped the G at the tuner while trying to finish my setup, and had to switch the the 11's. Which are actually still too slinky. Makes sense I suppose - since the scale counts for almost a full string gauge. I like my locking tuners but... this is not cool if my tuners are breaking cores. Anyone else playing locking tuners with a wound G, and do you have any issues or maybe wrap techniques?  After playing a wound G again, then having to switch back - I'm struck by just how wonky plain singles in the 0.018-0.020 range really are. I don't wanna go back... Plus I can pull off (literally) a number of inversions which are prone to being pulled sharp on 10's and even 11's.

 

[drewfx]

The only time I've had problems with strings breaking at the tuner with locking tuners (Schallers) is when I've unlocked a string temporarily (to work on the nut) and then tried to restring it. I've broken a few that way.

 

[swarfrat]

I've not had problems before - but before I've only used plain strings for the G. What I think whats happening, is cranking down on a wound G with it's teeny tiny core - just breaks. I guess I'm going to just start wrapping the G like it was a non locking tuner. I'm glad I tried the 12's first though - trying a set of 11's and 12's back to back was eye opening. I would have never even considered 12's before - I only did it on a whim because of the scale length. But a wound G just sounds sooo good. Better harmonics, better tone - I think it's probably related to inharmonicity due to the thickness of the plain string.  Has me rethinking all sorts of things...

 

[Cagey]

It's probably just bad luck. I'd break a few more before I called it a trend. Even if it is an issue, which I doubt, adding wraps isn't going to mitigate it. That'll just negate the advantage of having lockers.

 

[swarfrat]

Tonight I took another stab at setup since changing gauges. Waiting on new strings to arrive since I don't feel like going back to Guitar 'Bouncer at the door that treats you like a criminal' Center. (And I only did that because it was a Sunday afternoon, and most music stores are closed)

I was able to get action quite a bit lower than before, and wow. I  like Def Leppard, but never really sat out to try to emulate Phil or anything like that.  Or even learn their tunes. But I recall seeing an interview where he described his setup - really thick necks, heavy strings, and super low action. At the time I just found it odd that anyone who might even remotely be described as a shredder would be into such a setup. Now I think the boy might be onto something. 

It's a departure for me as well - I have traditionally liked 10's or 11's with fairly high action. Something I could dig under and heave. I actually got a couple set's of 13's in addition to the 12's - to see how that turns out. I like being able to do something like this without pulling stuff out of tune. (remember, it's tuned EADGCF)

 

[swarfrat]

Follow up - I bought 2 sets of 12's and 2 sets of 13's. 12's not yet arrived. 13's are not as ... I won't say difficult.. not as painful to bend as I thought. It's more like walking up to the washington monument and trying to push it over. You can push all you like, it just won't go anywhere. Moving the strings is not the hard part. Moving it far enough to get the bend you were after is.  I still don't have my setup the way I like it. But this isn't a bad thing - it's just the flip side of what I was after - and r-3 and 3-r intervals on the C&F strings sound much much better as a result. I think to get the action where I want .. I need a tiny bit of neck angle.  I also have some tweaking to do to the Earvana ... it's clear it will need some dremeling to continue to reap the benefits of a compensated nut. They mention this on the web page.

 

[swarfrat]

FTR, 13's do not like being tuned to F, not even on a 24.75

Think I likely going to setlle on 12's, but mostly for intonation reasons.  The Earvana is not just  good idea,  its almost a necessity, and it doesnt even have quite enough compensation for this setup. Essentially what a compensated not is compensating is the tuning effect of the tension needed to push the string down to the fret. Short scale, heaving strings, higher tension are all positive drivers. If you look at the Stephen Delft compensated nut article from 20 years ago (cough USPTO,Ernie Ball) there's a Gibson set up with really heavy strings and high action, and its compensated way more than any of the offerings on the market.

I already know that the G-string is going to need to be cut back due to the wound change. Just waiting until i settle on gauges before cutting on it

 

[zebra]

Sorry to necropost, but what was the outcome? 

I'm planning on setting up one of my Teles for P4.  The setup would be 25.5 scale with thicker strings - I want to go thick enough to use a wound G.  I tend not to tune as high in P4 - with 10s, I tune P4 to Eb (low string), so with 11-13, probably D or Db (depending on getting the right balance of feel/pitch of the tension). 

Did wound Gs keep breaking? 
Or did you find a gauge of G where the core was thick enough so that it was no longer an issue?
Or anything else of interest to report?

Thanks!

 

[swarfrat]

I don't remember. Pretty sure that it was only one or two, or maybe technique. I've not had a lot of string changes on that guitar though.

 

[fdesalvo]

I had Sperzels that would always snap ‘em at the post. Had no issues since moving on.

Something you could try is to center the string in the aperture before locking the string in. A sharp edge of the tuner could be separating the windings and then cutting into the core. If that’s the case, a litttle abrasive cord would help.