Wiring help w HSH Strat

[Johnny]

It's been a while since I last posted here but I'm working on a new Strat project and seeking some help with how to do the wiring. The project guitar is...

- Worn Strat body obtained off Craigslist
- Warmoth Goncalo Alves/Pau Ferro neck with SS6115 frets
- MannMade trem
- Gibson 57 Classic (2-wire) (bridge)
- SD STK S1N (middle)
- SD Lil 59 (neck)

I'm currently thinking of using the following switch settings...

1 - Bridge HB
2 - Bridge HB + Neck HB
3 - Neck HB
4 - Middle
5 - Neck HB wired in parallel

I have both a CRL switch and a super switch.  I have CTS 500k audio taper pots.

My specific questions are...

1. Do I need to use the super switch?
2. Should I use 1 tone pot for bridge and 1 for middle and neck?
3. Should I wire both tone pots with .022 caps?
4. Are the 500k pots OK or should I use a 250k pot somewhere.
5. I'm planning on 1 volume and 2 tone pots but honestly rarely use my tone controls so should I go with 2 volumes and 1 tone?

A more general question is whether or not anyone has any general recommendations. I'm not set on anything yet (other then my pickup choices) so any advice would be appreciated!!!

 

[stratamania]

Here are a few answers for you.

1. Yes for those pickup selections you will need a super switch.

2 and 5. can't answer for you. You could also just use a single volume and tone pot which for this type of set I think would be my preference.

3. .022 or .047 would be personal preference.

4. 500K pots are OK. On the other hand, the Musicman Steve Morse HSH or HSSH guitars use 250K. If using 500K an additional resistor could be used so when the middle pickup is selected it sees 250K. 

5.  See 2 and 5 above.


My general recommendation, go with 500K to start with and use a resistor if you find the single coil needs it. Use a super switch and a single volume and single tone.

 

[Zhaezzy]

I would go for a tree way switch and have one of your volumes be a push pull pot for volume and on off on your middle pickup. I have done that before and it is quite cool you can add a little quack to add definition without trying to sound liekke a strat.

 

[Johnny]

Thanks for the help.  I've done a couple of wiring projects but this is my first adventure with something that I have to actually figure out (mostly) on my own - thus the somewhat dumb questions.  I'm going to stick with a 5-way because I want positions 4 and 5 to be at least relatively clean.  The suggestion of a single tone and volume pot is a really good one for me except that the pickguard has three holes and for some reason feel like I have to use all of them, though I guess I could just put a dummy pot in.

Thanks again!!!!

 

[stratamania]

If you go with 1 vol and 1 tone and want to fill in the hole with something not wired as a pot you could use a push-pull of some type to give yourself more wiring possibilities or choices though I think it just adds complexity for the sake of it.

 

[stratamania]

If you get stuck, shout out

I had some time to kill today and drew it out.

 

[Johnny]

It was really tempting to just ask for what you had drawn out but I resisted because I really wanted to understand how the wiring works.  I got some time this weekend to study a number of wiring diagrams and I tried to work through how to wire up this guitar.  Attached is the wiring diagram that I came up with.  The coding is probably obvious to someone familiar with these but since I made up the the wiring abbreviations...here's how to interpret the coding: 

1) Wires are labeled PPPc where PPP is the pickup (e.g., L59 for Lil 59) and c is the color (e.g., b for black).
2) V is the Volume pot
3) T1 and T2 are the Tone pots

This is really just showing the super switch wiring so some of what is not shown is:

1) The white and red wires for the STK pickup are wired together.
2) The green and bare wires for the STK and L59 are wired to ground.
3) The bare shielding on C57 is wired to ground.

Note that T1 is intended to be in use for positions 4 & 5 and T2 is intended to be in use for positions 1, 2 & 3.  Any comments on this?  Would it be better to have T2 wired for position 1 and T2 for all other positions?

I'm planning on using .022 caps on both tone pots.

Will this work?  Any recommendations?

 

[Johnny]

I converted the wiring diagram to a jpg so everyone doesn't have to download the pdf...

 

[stratamania]

It's different to what I came up with. I didn't post it as you mentioned earlier you wanted to figure it out. I am happy enough to post what I came up with.  (It's late in the UK so it would be tomorrow now when I could get to it)

I found it quite an interesting one to figure out. (Its best effort of course as I cant test it)

 

[Johnny]

It would be great to see what you came up with if it's not to much trouble.  I think what I have should work but it'd be nice to compare to another diagram to sort of double check my work.  I'm really glad I went through the exercise myself because I have learned quite a bit.  For example, I set out to have one tone pot controlling the Classic 57 and the other tone pot controlling the other pickups. Took awhile, but finally figured out that wasn't going to happen.  Anyway, I obviously have much more to learn but it's a start!

 

[stratamania]

Sure, this is what I came up with. I used one volume and tone.

One pole of the switch is used for selecting the bridge or middle pickups for positions 1, 2 and 4.
Another pole for the neck humbucker black hot wire for positions 2 and 3 in series, and 5 when in parallel.
The commons of both of these poles are joined together and output to the volume pot.

To create the series or parallel wiring for the neck humbucker I used the other two poles, one each for the red and white wire. I used the commons of these poles as inputs, not outputs. Red into one and white to the other (this was the trick for this particular wiring).

The series-parallel poles then give you in positions 2 and 3 series wiring by joining the red and white wire "together". In position 5 it makes the neck pickup parallel, red and white remain separate and then send to volume or ground respectively.

In the diagram, the purple wire forming from neck red pole 5 to the volume pot could have been joined to common of the pole the neck pickup black wire used but would have been less clear on the diagram. Electrically it gives the same result.

 

[Johnny]

Thanks!  It's nice to see a different approach (especially considering my inexperience).  As far as I can tell, the net result is the same except that I have two tone pots.  So if I can get some time tonight, I'm going to heat up the soldering iron. 

 

[stratamania]

Great, let us know how it goes...

 

[Johnny]

I finally finished the build.  It took a bit of time because I was out of town for about half the time and I had to do some routing to the control cavity to fit the super switch and get the pick guard aligned correctly.  In any event, it all seemed to work as planned.  I expected that I would need to fix some wiring mistake, but apparently I got everything wired and soldered correctly in one take.  Wish I could do that when I record  :laughing7:

Thanks for the help!

 

[stratamania]

Awesome news. Glad to help.

How are you finding the Helix I see next to the guitar?

 

[Johnny]

I pre-ordered the Helix, so I've had mine since they were first available and have been absolutely thrilled with it.  Everyone tends to want to know how good the modelling is and it is really, really good but you get so much more than just that.  The routing is flexible, it's easy to program, you get USB audio for recording, digital scribble scripts, and more.

One thing that was initially very important to me was being able to integrate it with my tube amp (Mesa Mk III).  I just didn't feel I could give up having at least a tube power section driving a guitar cab.  Now it's been months since I've even turned my guitar amp on because I just prefer the Helix directly to PA/monitors.

 

[stratamania]

Interesting feedback thanks.

 

[Cagey]

I just didn't feel I could give up having at least a tube power section driving a guitar cab.  Now it's been months since I've even turned my guitar amp on because I just prefer the Helix directly to PA/monitors.

That's getting to be such a common comment about modelers in general that I think computer keyboards are going to start coming with a macro key programmed to just type that out with one keypress so as to save time  :laughing7:

Also, I'm not in the used amp market so I haven't noticed, but have prices dropped any on used amps over the last few years? Again, re: modelers - if as many people sold all their old amps/effects after getting one of the better/newer modelers as have said they did, you'd think the stores/ebay would be flooded and the prices dropping through the floor.

 

[Johnny]

That's getting to be such a common comment about modelers in general that I think computer keyboards are going to start coming with a macro key programmed to just type that out with one keypress so as to save time  :laughing7:

Since around 2000, I haven't played in any bands and have essentially become a 'bedroom' player.  When I played in bands I had a large, heavy rig (the Mesa 295 power amp weighs a freakin' ton) so when I stopped I bought one of the POD beans and while I knew it wasn't great, it worked well enough.  In subsequent years, I went through several iterations of the Line 6 POD series before I finally bought one of their DT25 amps.  After years of modeling and not having a tube amp to compare it to, I was floored by how much better a tube amp sounded.

All this is to say that I (as I'm sure most guitarist my age) was pretty skeptical of modeling.  It's not that I didn't think it was good, but I certainly would not have been surprised if it didn't measure up to a real tube amp.  Well, as for me and my ears, I would never be able to pick a modeled amp from a real one.

I should sell my tube amp but I can't bring myself to do it but for reasons that have nothing to do with sound quality.  I haven't really noticed the price of tube amps going down but I would think that sales of new amps (e.g., units sold) must be affected.  In the long run, I think modeling is going to have a serious impact on tube amp sales but there will always be those that prefer having tubes even if you can't really hear the difference.

 

[Cagey]

I'm sure tube amps will always be around. I just feel sorry for anyone who's feels dependant on one, as maintenance is going to get increasingly difficult/expensive. Plus, the damned things are heavy! Although, I shouldn't talk. My modeler is in a rack that I can't carry, so what difference does it make?