WIP: A fretless baritone strat

[freen]

Hi, new to the forums. Looks like an interesting place!

So -uh- my first Warmoth project seems kinda crazy. From the subject you probably guessed it, but yes, that's right, I'm making a freakin' FRETLESS BARITONE STRAT!!

So far I've only ordered the neck, which I'm going to fit to a low budget strat kit I got from a local supplier. Since this is really an experiment (I'm not sure if one of these even exists anywhere), I figured this would be the cheapest way to start the experiment. If I end up with something I want to play, I can upgrade the body and so on later.

My inspiration is a combination of the oud, the fretless guitars you hear in some Turkish music as well as the fretless work of Zappa, Belew and John Cale.
I went for the baritone, because I think the long scale length might help increase sustain, plus I like the idea of sitting between the bass and the guitar in register.

I'll post updates as I progress. Wish me luck!

 

[stratamania]

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your experiment .

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Welcome. And that sounds like an interesting project.

I have never tried a fretless guitar - so I wouldn't know what to expect. But I remember some discussion about it. About the importance of the quality and stamina of the fretboard.

What are the specs on yours?

 

[freen]

What are the specs on yours?

*gulp* fingerboard stamina? I didn't think of that. Hopefully the rosewood holds up.
The main decision I made was to give it a fatback, like a cello or violin.

Here are the specs:

Style: Stratocaster®
Construction: Baritone 28-5/8"
Orientation: Right Handed
Neck Wood: Birdseye Maple
Fingerboard Wood: Indian Rosewood
Nut Width: 1-11/16"
Back Shape: Fatback
Fret Size: Fretless
Tuner Ream: Gotoh/Grover (13/32" 11/32")
Radius: 10-16" Compound
Scale: 28-5/8" Conversion
Fret #: 24
Mounting Holes: Standard 4 Bolt
Pre-Cut Installed String Nut: GraphTech Black TUSQ XL - Standard Nut
Inlays: No Inlay
Side Dots: White Side Dots
Finish: No Finish

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Here are some older threads on the subject:

http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=23179.0

http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=24025

 

[freen]

Great info. Thanks!
You'll notice I ordered it wit no finish. At first I was thinking of using marine epoxy, and it's interesting to read that this is what Jaco used, but now I'm considering other options.
...also, I'm now thinking I should've gone with ebony rather than rosewood. Going to try to see if I can change my order,  :-\
Thanks again.

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Wow....  so much to say on this one! Having done a fretless baritone myself, this is familiar territory.

First:

...also, I'm now thinking I should've gone with ebony rather than rosewood. Going to try to see if I can change my order,  :-\

Not a huge deal if you don't. If you look at the Janka Scale, you'll see that rosewood is a little more than half as hard as ebony, but it's still very hard.  Unless you're playing steel roundwounds and digging in on every single note, you're not going to tear up the board too badly.  If you're doing more chords, you'll have the fingers barred & won't be pressing into the board that much anyway.  Mine was maple w/just a TruOil finish, I played with flatwounds and it still looks very smooth.

Bottom line: depending on how you play & your strings, you could easily get away with no finish.  However, if you do finish, I'd recommend Cyanoacrilate (aka super glue) in thin coats.  I converted an old acoustic guitar that way, came out great.

Your choice of a fatback is a good one.  I personally could never quite jive with my fretless neck w/standard thin: I found it too thin to play like a normal guitar, but the string spacing was too tight to play it like a bass.  I should get around to posting it back on the for sale forum.

Have you played fretless guitar before?  Are you more curious bass player wanting to expand, or curious guitar player who likes the low end?  Either way:  :headbang1:

 

[freen]

Sorry for the late reply.
The neck just arrived today. I've assembled and have been playing away. Sure is fun!
I'm using Elixir nano web baritone strings, 0.12-0.68
However, the top 2 strings have almost no sustain.
Would the Cyanoacrilate or similar finish improve this, or should I look for other solutions?

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Sadly, there's not much that can be done about that one.  A fretboard coating is going to be a good way to protect the board from wear, but it might actually make the feel of it softer and kill sustain!  There's always going to be issues getting unwound strings to sustain as long as a wound string.  The thinner the string, the less sustain in general; but that's especially true on fretless.

I'd try moving to a slightly higher gauge string, maybe even getting a wound B, but you're not going to have much luck getting the high e (or B or whatever) sustain like the low strings.

 

[stubhead]

It is customary to play a real sarod with the lefthand fingers tilted up so that you're actually catching the string with your fingernails, and it does work wonders. With a bit of experimenting, you'll see why this might work better with the guitar strapped up pretty high, not Page-ish knee-rocking. So, the difference between rosewood and ebony is nowhere near the difference between squishy fingertip/fingernail, or even between one way of grabbing the string with a fingertip vs. another, or hard fingers vs. soft? In one of those previous threads:
http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=24025
- I mentioned the free bad stupid book written by Tim Donahue, apparently about five minutes after he started playing fretless guitar. One of the bad stupid things he says is that sustain is caused by the string buzzing against the fretboard, which is really stupid, but - the lower the action, the less string is contacting the soft, muting part of the fingertip. This bears some serious thinking, experimenting and head-scratching.

One result of all that may be the idea that standard tuning isn't going to get you at the most music. In my case, the notion that open drone strings are useful may indeed lead me to a tuning with no unwound strings in it whatever, and the idea that strings don't actually HAVE to start with the lowest on one side and move up to the thinnest. I really haven't had time or inclination to mess with this lately, I have SO much stuff to mess with.... which is good, not bad. THIS guy, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fiuczynski

is by far more interesting to me than all the rock guys who seem to want to play fretless guitar so you can't tell it's fretless guitar? :icon_scratch: His playing on this CD:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/131342010262?lpid=82
is, like, the least-shy imaginable - he's not at all afraid of the weird notes in-between the "right" notes. And he plays through, like, a Bogner and Two-Rock and stuff. All his YouTube vids are worth poking through.

 

[freen]

Thanks for the detailed replies!
indeed I have found it has much to do  with technique. I can't really test the idea of using fingernails right now (being a nail biter), but it's a good excuse to grow them back.

Took it to a jam this weekend and had lots of fun. The lower register meant I had a great range, (with the longer scale length, I  have 5 more notes at the bottom and only 3 less at the top than a regular guitar).  Only issue there was avoiding treading on the basplayers' toes.

I really had to focus on staying in tune, but i guess that's a muscle memory thing... more practice, more practtice.