Which HB'ing PU's are the "airiest"? (Jerry Garcia excerpt)

[Edoardo]

Hello Pick-up nerds,

I was wondering which kind of hum-bucking pick-ups will generally give you the airiest, woodiest tone, on a solid body guitar.

For the longest time, I was convinced that low-output pickups were the way to go for the tones that I dig.
I've found the lower output pickups to be generally more dynamic and revealing, and hence, sort of "airier".
That's also what guitar techs have been telling me!

Now, reading here and there, I've started wondering whether high output or even active pickups would get me closer to the tone that I'm actually seeking. 

Too bad I can't find enough examples, if any, of high output pickups delivering a great clean tone.

Let me attach an example of the airiest, woodiest solid body I've ever heard.

Now, I know I ain't never gonna sound anything like the one and only Jerry Garcia, but I found it really interesting to read that he's been using higher output, pre-amplified pickups to get this super woody tone. (I guess that putting a pre into your guitar counts as having really high output pickups).

This may not be the only argument for "high-output pickups being airy",

Let's just say this guitar tone to be my new benchmark.

How else would you describe it?

Thank you very much everyone



[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a10NEdIhYjU[/youtube]

 

[amigarobbo]

I'm no (6 string) pickup expert, but if someone told me they were EMGs played clean (it is possible!) I wouldn't doubt them.

 

[Edoardo]

I'm no (6 string) pickup expert, but if someone told me they were EMGs played clean (it is possible!) I wouldn't doubt them.

What do you mean... that it is possible to play EMG pickups while keeping a clean tone? :icon_biggrin:

You may or may not be aware of this: as far as I have read, Jerry Garcia played mid/high output DiMarzio Pickups for most of his career.

They could indeed sound like active pickups, because Jerry Garcia's later guitars featured a built-in preamplifier!

Kudos, man! Great ear! ccasion14:

Have you got any... sound samples to link?  :hello2:

 

[Rick]

I hear the same thing ... High output pups played clean with just a bit of character.

 

[amigarobbo]

Have you got any... sound samples to link?  :hello2:

Only what I got from a search for 'clean EMG' on YouTube.  :icon_thumright:

The Jerry Garcia does have that typical slight compression that you get with active pickups, but then who knows what sort of signal processing went on when it went to a recording.



Actually, https://youtu.be/06Riegst_es?t=188

I think they've got more sparkle to the sound than Fender Noiseless pickups in whatever generation they're up to now.  :dontknow:

That's not to say any is better or worse that any other, personal taste all that  :turtle:

 

[Edoardo]

I hear the same thing ... High output pups played clean with just a bit of character.

Could you please describe how you can tell that? In my experience, I associate higher output pickups with a "muddier" tone, and compression with either a fatter, muddier or thinner tone... This ones sound huge, without losing any detail, woodiness or sparkle

 

[Edoardo]

Have you got any... sound samples to link?  :hello2:

Only what I got from a search for 'clean EMG' on YouTube.  :icon_thumright:

The Jerry Garcia does have that typical slight compression that you get with active pickups, but then who knows what sort of signal processing went on when it went to a recording.

Actually, https://youtu.be/06Riegst_es?t=188

I think they've got more sparkle to the sound than Fender Noiseless pickups in whatever generation they're up to now.  :dontknow:

That's not to say any is better or worse that any other, personal taste all that  :turtle:

Yeah... I hear what you mean!

It is just that, due to my somewhat poor experience, when something is advertised as "adding that natural compression!" I tend to run away from it.

This is mostly because I used to own a set of high end, noiseless single coils... which were branded as "vintage output"... well... well... They were so muddy and so compressed that I had to get a pair of noisy, but actually vintage spec'd, pickups... to make the guitar breathe and sound like a strat is supposed to sound!

The way they brand these products got me really skeptical of... pickups coming with green circuit boards attached, I guess?  :icon_biggrin:

So, may I ask, what do you hear when you say "slight compression"? Because I don't really associate "compression" with a rich, sparkly, airy tone.

I don't even think I am looking for the chime or the twang. Just a "bigger", wider clean sound.


EDIT: mannnn that tele neck does sound like a huge jazzbox! I dig that  :blob7:

 

[drewfx]

Jerry used DiMarzio Super Distortions followed by Super 2's in his later years, BUT most of the time he was using the middle PU in split coil mode.

 

[Rick]

Besides the humbucker you gotta factor in the speaker and the amp.  So I'd look for a speaker with a high headroom.

 

[zebra]

I hear the same thing ... High output pups played clean with just a bit of character.

Could you please describe how you can tell that? In my experience, I associate higher output pickups with a "muddier" tone, and compression with either a fatter, muddier or thinner tone... This ones sound huge, without losing any detail, woodiness or sparkle

Height adjustment is important.  Ceramic pickups are stronger, so they can create more string pull.  Lowering them a bit can allow them to open up a bit.  They're also known for having more tightness/clarity/punch to bass frequencies.  Maybe they come off as "muddy" when they are either set too close to the strings...just thinking out loud...

I've had a few pickups in guitars that I thought were "muddy" but they were stock pickups, so I never knew what magnets they had, or any other specs.  As obvious as it sounds, knowing the specs of pickups you like can be super helpful.

 

[zebra]

One last thought:  Wiring is also a thing to consider.  The right humbucker wired in parallel can strike a great balance between body and clarity/airiness.  Lots of folks like to hard-wire their neck pickups into parallel, because the same pickup wired in series would be too muddy for them.

 

[BroccoliRob]

Besides the humbucker you gotta factor in the speaker and the amp.  So I'd look for a speaker with a high headroom.

..and the room, the microphone, the distance and angle of the microphone,  the preamp, and mixer, and other processing done when mixing an album...

 

[loquendo89]

Might be a bit late...I just ordered my guitar so it'll be a while until I prove my personal theory correct and I'm not a dead-head, but my quest for "tone" and pickup selection led me to the Garcia/Alembic/RickTurner rabbit hole as inspiration. I bought EMG single coil's with EMG's new preamp that has more headroom - these are called HX. I was inspired also by Les Paul's low impedance pickups that used an output transformer. If you are partial to the humbucker tone - I was also checking out Lace Alumitones and the EMG 60x.

I don't know buzzwords too well but I think you're looking for the same thing as me which I would have called "transparent" or "extended frequency range." Low output pickups were top choice at the beginning of my coronavirus unemployment new guitar research project but they color your guitar (which is desirable to some) and get more color as you add winds.... on top of that you'd have to add a treble bleed if you used a passive pickup of any kind if you like to play with your guitars knobs - you'd lose that Garcia clarity quite quickly. If you didn't want to look into active pickups, I'd also look into running a humbucker in parallel - that might get you closer to what you're after.

EMG just seemed to solve my theoretical wants and I'll report back to you if they have or have not. My other guitars are a Les Paul with out of phase HU's and a warmoth tele with previously mentioned treble bleed.

Edit: Hey also keep in mind aside from Garcia's pre amp he also probably had phase switches, maybe series/parallel switches and I've seen Alembic have a treble booster - this could aid to his sound. I listened to his Travis bean era shows also though from the late 70's and he still gets that Jerry Garcia sound.

This might sound crazy but the only other person with this approach I've come across is Steve Albini. Both at one point used an Intersound IVP or something - its a pre-amp - in edition to these hi-fi style full range set ups....

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

To me this is just a warm clean tone with a lot of reverb.  There is a lot of reverb used for his guitar tone and probably natural reverb in the room as well.   

 

[Masteraxeman]

Seymour Duncan Zephyrs might do the trick if you can afford them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVb5dLjCJaE

 

[Heavy Rock]

This sounds like a middle humbucker to me. The closest I ever came to something like this in the bridge position was a WCR Fillmore humbucker.

Edit: It could be a Super D in the middle as mentioned above especially if he's known to have been using them. Ceramic pickups have that high end chime too.