What would you do with the "extra hole" {\.|./} ?

[Scab Pickens]

Since my dreams of purchasing one of the Burl Fusion Meadowhawks are drifting off into the sunset, I can't help but to think about what else I can create.

I have been seriously eyeballing this "Oops!" body ...

(link to product removed because it is no longer available - I bought it!)

I have always been interested in the Seymour Duncan P-Rails pickups. I have not tried them. The reviews I have read / watched / listened to have been mixed (of course). I would never expect every mode to be better, or even equal to, the single equivalent. I'm not a purist, though, when it comes to guitar tones.

Anyway ... the most obvious thing (to me) to do with this body would be to put a set of SD P-Rails in it with a mini toggle on-off-on switch in the upper rout. The main problem is the 1/2" hole and that most mini toggles are 1/4" shaft. Anybody have a good solution to reduce a 1/2" hole for a 1/4" shaft switch?

Aside from all of that nonsense ... does anybody have any other suggestions? How would you use that setup? Standard tele blade switch - upper horn toggle - two humbucker routs ...

I have done basic guitar wiring, but the complicated stuff makes my brain hurt. So, maybe there are options I have not considered?

 

[stratamania]

With the P Rails, there are lots of options you could do there.

You have options for wiring with push-pull pots on the volume and tone, the blade switch or the upper toggle. With switches from Freeway the options become greater.

Even with a standard toggle, you could use this as a pickup selector for neck, neck + bridge, bridge selection. Then you use a blade switch such as a 4 or 5 way super switch to give the P rails options for the pickups, or just the neck pickup, for example, and then use the push pulls for the other pickup.

Not sure what you were planning to do with the mini toggle, but there are tons of options if you think out of the box a bit. What do you want the overall switching to do?

 

[supertruper1988]

You could fill the hole with the dimarzio 4P3T toggle and get series/P90/Rail from the p-pails. You could also do a piezo setup and have the upper toggle be the switch between them. Or you could go the buckethead route and put a kill switch up there to get your RATM on.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

My idea is to have the guitar routed for 3 pickups so it is H-S-H configuration.

The toggle switch is used as the pickup selector which typically allows bridge only, bridge and neck, or neck only.
However the blade switch will be a 4-pole "Super-switch" to select 5 different selection modes as follows:

Pos 1. Bridge=P90. Neck=P90. Middle= OFF. (Toggle works as as dual P90 guitar)

Pos 2. Bridge=P90. Neck=Disabled. Middle = Direct to Neck (Middle pickup alone with toggle towards neck)

Pos 3. Bridge=H-B. Neck=H-B. Middle= OFF (Toggle works as as dual humbucker guitar)

Pos 4. Bridge=H-B. Neck=P90. Middle = Direct to Neck (3 pickups simulaneously with toggle in centre position)

Pos 5. Bridge=H-B. Neck=P90. Middle= OFF (Toggle combines humbucker bridge and P90 Neck)

You don't have to use this wiring with only P-Rails pickups. Any 4-conductor humbuckers would work using these coil-split wiring options.

It would also work with two humbuckers with no middle pickup, using a regular 3-position blade switch to obtain the combinations in Pos1, Pos 3, and Pos 5 as listed.

 

[Scab Pickens]

Not sure what you were planning to do with the mini toggle, but there are tons of options if you think out of the box a bit. What do you want the overall switching to do?

With two P-Rails, the mini toggle would just be a combined selector for both pickups - single coil/P-90/humbucker. Not ideal, as I would prefer to have individual control over both pickups' "modes".

I think I will explore the options of using a standard Les Paul style 3-way selector up top and see what else can be done with blade switch and/or push-pull pots.

Thanks for the input, it got me thinking in a different way already!

 

[Scab Pickens]

Or you could go the buckethead route and put a kill switch up there to get your RATM on.

The kill switch idea actually crossed my mind. I'm not sure how much I would use it, though. So ... still trying to come up with another, perhaps more versatile, solution.

Thanks for the ideas!

 

[Scab Pickens]

My idea is to have the guitar routed for 3 pickups so it is H-S-H configuration.

The toggle switch is used as the pickup selector which typically allows bridge only, bridge and neck, or neck only.
However the blade switch will be a 4-pole "Super-switch" to select 5 different selection modes as follows:

Wow, now my brain really hurts!

I think I would stick to the 2 pickups, but your other ideas are very interesting and definitely food for thought. Thanks!

 

[Scab Pickens]

I think I am just going to have to pull the trigger and order the body. Leaning towards Tiger's Eye dye / Tobacco Burst (Burst-over) back. Gold hardware. I already have the Hipshot hardtail bridge, string ferrules, neck plate, Schaller strap locks, and jack plate. Need to get some gold pickup rings and a set of gold Schaller staggered tuners (already have a set of 3+3s, but will probably go 6 in-line on this one). Cream pickups and switch tips, I think. I had considered a Warmoth Tiltback neck to utilize my 3+3 tuner set, but will probably end up going for either a Strat or Warhead neck.

The waiting game for the body will give me plenty of time to (hopefully) figure out what to do about the pickups/electronics/neck. It should be a spectacular guitar, whichever other options I decide to go with.

Thanks again for the input, folks! It has been stimulating.

Now, off to do more research on wiring options ...

 

[Scab Pickens]

The order for the body has been placed. The next journey begins ...

 

[stratamania]

You could get about 72 different combinations out of those pickups and switches. It might not be that practical, however, depending on the planned usage.

You might want to check that the Hipshot bridge you have has .125" height, which is the one you will need. Hipshot also do a .175" height.

 

[rockandroller]

I would use the two lower holes as V/V and put a tone control on the top hole. Make the volumes pull-pots, to get these p-rail options:

P-rails | photos

P-rails - P-rails.png

rockandroller.ca

( I had great fun making this lefty p-rails guitar out of a Stratosphere carcass. I used push-pots and they worked splendidly )

 

[stratamania]

With two P-Rails, the mini toggle would just be a combined selector for both pickups - single coil/P-90/humbucker. Not ideal, as I would prefer to have individual control over both pickups' "modes".

Not the best use of that position and limiting what you will be able to do.

I think I will explore the options of using a standard Les Paul style 3-way selector up top and see what else can be done with blade switch and/or push-pull pots.

This is a much better approach and will provide many more options.

Consider this, upper toggle pickup selector.
5 way super-switch for neck pickup to give Series humbucker, rail, P90, parallel humbucker and out of phase when combined with the other pickup.
Push pulls on volume and tone can give you the Series humbucker, rail, P90, parallel humbucker for the bridge P-Rails.

Thanks for the input, it got me thinking in a different way already!

One of the reasons why we are here.

 

[Scab Pickens]

You could get about 72 different combinations out of those pickups and switches. It might not be that practical, however, depending on the planned usage.

You might want to check that the Hipshot bridge you have has .125" height, which is the one you will need. Hipshot also do a .175" height.

Yeah, the whole "practical" thing has me a bit concerned when it comes to the complicated switching. I've had a guitar or two in the past with too many tonal options and ended up spending more time trying to get a decent sound out of any of them than playing the guitar.

The Hipshot bridge I have was recently purchased from Warmoth - definitely .125" floor height ...

Hipshot Hardtail Bridge - Flat Mount Bridges - Fixed Bridges - Guitar Bridges - Hardware

<p> This might just be the perfect hardtail bridge - elegant design and perfect playability! Each bridge is hand-polished for a smooth, comfortable feel under your palm. The stainless steel saddles deliver clear tone, while Hipshot's unique sidewall desi

warmoth.com

I already have an ESP E-II Eclipse with coil splitting active EMGs, so I am starting to think maybe the basic two humbucker, 3-way blade switch, kill switch up top option might be the way to go on this one. The beautiful thing is that I can always explore other options down the road if I wish too. I've never owned a guitar with a kill switch. It might be fun ... for a little while, at least!

The "planned usage", the more I think about it, is just to play the damned thing and not worry about where my switches and knobs are set. I think you have helped me come to a realization. Thanks!

 

[Scab Pickens]

I would use the two lower holes as V/V and put a tone control on the top hole. Make the volumes pull-pots, to get these p-rail options:

P-rails | photos

P-rails - P-rails.png

rockandroller.ca

( I had great fun making this lefty p-rails guitar out of a Stratosphere carcass. I used push-pots and they worked splendidly )

Very cool! I think my P-Rails idea is starting to fade away at this point, however.

 

[stratamania]

If you still wanted to do the P-Rails it could use the upper toggle as a pickup selector like a Les Paul. It would be simple to wire up a blade switch to give both pickups as humbuckers with coils in series, P90, rail, humbuckers with coils in parallel with a 4 way super-switch. Not complicated and more useful than a kill switch.

 

[Cheery Zeery]

Am I too basic for thinking that I'd just use the upper horn to house a master tone knob? Would that even work or is the hole too big? Just seems like the Gretsch thing to do.

 

[Scab Pickens]

Well, I think you guys have given me enough ideas to chew on for now. Thanks. I would have never thought about some of the things suggested.

I just seem to be going further away from the P-Rails idea but might come back to it. I'm thinking some Lollar El Rayo pickups might be sweet in this guitar. Then I could just hang a lucky rabbit's foot out of the top hole or maybe a set of mini fuzzy dice out of the blade switch slot. Just kidding! I probably have a few months to think about it, so I'll be back around with an update at some point. Maybe even a "Builds in Progress" topic ...

I can't wait to see the finished body!

 

[bagman67]

Buckethead style signal-interrupt killswitch button?

 

[stratamania]

Whatever humbuckers you use, as long as they have four wires, the same things that can be done to P-Rails can be done to them in terms of series, parallel, splits to either coil, out of phase etc. The only difference with the P-Rail is one coil is similar to a P90 and the rail more like a single coil.

Jimmy Page had lots of wiring options on a Les Paul, the difference here of course is that you have master volume and master tone. But for the rest, you can do as few options or as many as you want.

The reason I like the upper toggle for pickup selection is you have a simple pickup selector like a Les Paul, then with the blade switch and any push pulls you might use you have those as options for different combinations. So it ends up being able to be used simply with the upper toggle, and then only use the other switch when you choose to.

Don't get put off by how would you wire it, the forum can help guide you.

 

[Spud]

Very cool! I think my P-Rails idea is starting to fade away at this point, however.

I had one P-rail neck wired up in a Carvin CT3M and found I really only liked the P-90 sound. I also, found the P-90 sound to be very balanced and polite , not really nasty and raunchy. YMMV.