Warmoth wiring kit Info.

[ventolino]

Hi, just need some info.
Warmoth sells this kit: http://www.warmoth.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=25455
It contains, as in description, "1 foot each of the black, white and red 22 gauge stranded wire and 3 feet of the 22 gauge stranded coaxial wire with braided shield and a thin clear jacket over the braid.".

I can't find infos on how to use these wires; i mean, i can't understand where to use shielded wire and where to use normal ( 22 gauge, black, white, red).

Also, i'm planning to make a circuit like LP, so, how can i use this kit to wire 3 way switch on upper horn? This switch requires 4 conductor wire from switch hole to control hole or i'm wrong? I can't find this wire on W store, do you know if they can sell this on request?

Thanks  :blob7:

 

[Orpheo]

I simply use telephone-wire. its a 4 conductor-wire, high quality copper, and its for 50 dollarcents per meter (3 feet)  ccasion14:

 

[dbw]

Or use two lengths of 2-conductor wire?

 

[Orpheo]

Or use two lengths of 2-conductor wire?

possible too, but the good thing of the telephonewire is the 4 colors: red yellow blue and green. I always use the same stuff. green is ground, red is hot output, yellow is bridge blue is neck. and because its just one neat cable instead of 2 2-conductors, it wont get cramped so soon. I like my cavities to be neat and tidy

 

[ventolino]

Orpheo,
i don't think using non-shielded wire like that telephone wire is a good idea for that purpose :-\
IMHO when wiring in non-shielded route of guitar i think shielded is a better choice.
Maybe i'm wrong... don't know.  :icon_scratch:

 

[Orpheo]

Orpheo,
i don't think using non-shielded wire like that telephone wire is a good idea for that purpose :-\
IMHO when wiring in non-shielded route of guitar i think shielded is a better choice.
Maybe i'm wrong... don't know.  :icon_scratch:

yep, you are wrong shielding for a wire this small, not neccasary. it only gives you more noise and hum (because you have to earth the shielding, and that gives aditional hum and buzz). I'll try to explain why.

There goes a current through the wires, and they give a (little) magnetic field. when you have a shielded wire, the magnetic field (that changes like a sinus, because the signal itself is as sinus!!!) creates a current in the shielding of the telephonewire. that gives you major-hum. so, thats why I dont use shielded wire

I do shield (to some extend) my cavities (cage of Faraday) but that is, in my opinion, not really an issue, because EM-waves will be picked up by your pickups (even if they are waxpotted) so its useless, but it reduces hum and noise a bit (or its just a placebo, which is more likely).

I experimented with this stuff extensivly, with guitars, and in my study. I study physics at the University of Amsterdam (one of the more decorated universities in the Netherlands and Europe), with extra courses is magnetic, magnetic wave and electronics studies, so I think i know what i'm talking about  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Alfang]

I agree with Orpheo, your pickups are antennas and will pickup noise, the rest of your electric parts, not so much. A few inches of wire are a lousey antenna, and will not pickup much noticeable noise.

The wire in your pickups is small, 42 guage, Phone cable is huge in comparison. So to use phone cable to get your signals arround your guitar sounds like a great way to me. I've never used phone cable, But I do think I will next time, it is small, easy to use, available everywhere.

 

[ventolino]

Thanks Orpheo for that great explanation, i'll follow you  :hello2:
"Guitar player repair guide" by Dan Erlewine says: "Using shielded wire wherever possible is a good bet, ..."
and another guitar electronics "guru" (on a site i can't remember) says not to use unshielded wire.
I think there's a lot of confusion about this matter and your expl. helps a little.
But now i ask myself where to use shielded wire that W sell in wiring kit if shielded wire gives more hum and noise.  :icon_scratch:

 

[Orpheo]

Thanks Orpheo for that great explanation, i'll follow you  :hello2:
"Guitar player repair guide" by Dan Erlewine says: "Using shielded wire wherever possible is a good bet, ..."
and another guitar electronics "guru" (on a site i can't remember) says not to use unshielded wire.
I think there's a lot of confusion about this matter and your expl. helps a little.
But now i ask myself where to use shielded wire that W sell in wiring kit if shielded wire gives more hum and noise.  :icon_scratch:

I do want to use shielded wire for the signal that comes out of the pickups (like the braided wire you see on old pafs and stuff), because I dont want my signal to be messed up with additional stuff, and the shielding of that wire is connected to the baseplate of the pickup, and that you really, really have to shield. if you have there the effect I refered to earlier, thats less of a problem, because that will give you less decay of the signal.


The best thing, still, you can do, is:

-shield the internal potcavity,
-use as LITTLE wire as possible
-use the widest wire you can use (the bigger the wire, the less the magnetic forces will work and create counter-currents)
-earth everything to ONE point! think of the earthing as a star (al to one point) in stead of a circle (loops to the pots etc). just a wire from the back of the pot to the earth-central. thats the best you can do.


In my opinion, shielding the pickupcavities themselves is useless. the signal comes from above (not under the pickups), and shielding underneath is not really usefull.

In a les paul, shielding is, imo, less neccasary than on a strat. That is logical, because the wood of a les paul (on the top and stuff) is thicker than the pickguard of a strat.

On a tele, the metal plate itself is already good shielding.

But on all my (new) guitars, I dont shield at all. why should I? it gives me more chance on buzzing and humming and earthing-problems, and even without, they're dead silent.

 

[ventolino]

The best thing, still, you can do, is:

-shield the internal potcavity,
-use as LITTLE wire as possible
-use the widest wire you can use (the bigger the wire, the less the magnetic forces will work and create counter-currents)
-earth everything to ONE point! think of the earthing as a star (al to one point) in stead of a circle (loops to the pots etc). just a wire from the back of the pot to the earth-central. thats the best you can do.

Only have a doubt remaining.
If i shield pots cavity with alu or copper adhesive sheets, then it's right to ground also this "conductive envelope" otherwise it's useless (right?).
When i install pots, are they also grounded to these conductive sheets (because nut or pot himself touch a conductive area) or not?
If they're already grounded and if i ground theme again to that central ground point is there risk of loops?
Is it better to isolate contact point between pots and conductive sheet and then ground pot's case to that central ground point?
Thanks again for all your infos.  :icon_thumright: 

 

[dbw]

That's correct ventolino... the pots should be grounded just by their contact with the metal shield.  You can read lots about this at guitarnuts.com...

 

[Orpheo]

The best thing, still, you can do, is:

-shield the internal potcavity,
-use as LITTLE wire as possible
-use the widest wire you can use (the bigger the wire, the less the magnetic forces will work and create counter-currents)
-earth everything to ONE point! think of the earthing as a star (al to one point) in stead of a circle (loops to the pots etc). just a wire from the back of the pot to the earth-central. thats the best you can do.

Only have a doubt remaining.
If i shield pots cavity with alu or copper adhesive sheets, then it's right to ground also this "conductive envelope" otherwise it's useless (right?).
When i install pots, are they also grounded to these conductive sheets (because nut or pot himself touch a conductive area) or not?
If they're already grounded and if i ground theme again to that central ground point is there risk of loops?
Is it better to isolate contact point between pots and conductive sheet and then ground pot's case to that central ground point?
Thanks again for all your infos.  :icon_thumright:   

there is contact between the pot and the shieldingmaterial, but I absolutely do NOT recommend to use that as the pot-ground. I will isolate the pot from the shielding material, for 3 purposes.

1: you eliminate any chance of earthloops in the signal. Perhaps your soldering iron it being held too long on a plastic-coated wire, and the coating becomes a bit loose, and a little hole is being torn in the coating. Chances are that it will touch the shielding-> short circuit-> no signal!
2: earth-loops are eliminated by isolation of the pots. I want to have (with NO EXEPTIONS!) all my groundlines to one spot. using the shieling as ground is just not a good idea. Just being on the safe side.
3: when you turn the potknob, you might twist the pot, and the shielding might tear. if that happens, your signal will do strange things, because the pot's ground is no longer there, or at least: no longer reliable.