Warmoth vintage CBS 12th dot spacing

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
My apologies if I am in the wrong section of the forum asking this question.

I have a question concerning Warmoths vintage CBS necks (not modern vintage) and the spacing of the 12th dots.
A Vintage CBS neck has the 12th dots spaced narrowly, (post 1964 spacing, no CBS headstocks before 1966) but I am now wondering if Warmoth puts them spaced wide (pre 1964 spacing which is not vintage for a CBS).
My concern is that the spacing isn't a vintage CBS spacing but a pre 1964 spacing with a big headstock.

I know the question is petty to some, but I am trying to replicate a 1966 CBS neck and that would just throw the whole aesthetic off (to me that is, YMMV).
I tried to google it, but couldn't find a decent image for comparison.
Anyways, greatly appreciate any info concerning my question.

Thanks guys.
 

AcrylicSuperman

Active member
Messages
64
Well, the dot spacing you are inquiring about is as follows, wide being vintage and narrow being considered modern:

12th-Dot-Spacing.jpg


And here is an example of a Warmoth CBS neck that was freshly plucked from the showcase.

vms-18144a-JPG.jpg



 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
They are narrow spaced. There is not an option from Warmoth for different spacing.

Sure there is.
Look at the spacing between the vintage and the modern/vintage and modern in this video.
The vintage construction has the wide spacing while the others have the narrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XXcDiPcKc&ab_channel=WarmothGuitarProducts

So I am wondering if this is the case for the CBS neck too.
Are they routing a vintage pre cbs strat neck but with a larger headstock?
That would lead to a CBS neck with a wide spacing instead of the vintage correct narrow CBS vintage aesthetic.
 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
I looked at the showcase and found one vintage and vintage/modern CBS.
The vintage has the pre CBS wide spacing, so they are routing a pre CBS vintage neck and then just put a large headstock on it and call it a vintage CBS neck.

 

Attachments

  • lame.jpg
    lame.jpg
    65.3 KB · Views: 42

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
AcrylicSuperman said:
Well, the dot spacing you are inquiring about is as follows, wide being vintage and narrow being considered modern:

12th-Dot-Spacing.jpg


And here is an example of a Warmoth CBS neck that was freshly plucked from the showcase.

vms-18144a-JPG.jpg

Yeah, but that's a vintage/modern in your image, not a vintage one.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,220
Deep Purple in Rock said:
stratamania said:
They are narrow spaced. There is not an option from Warmoth for different spacing.

Sure there is.
Look at the spacing between the vintage and the modern/vintage and modern in this video.
The vintage construction has the wide spacing while the others have the narrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XXcDiPcKc&ab_channel=WarmothGuitarProducts

So I am wondering if this is the case for the CBS neck too.
Are they routing a vintage pre cbs strat neck but with a larger headstock?
That would lead to a CBS neck with a wide spacing instead of the vintage correct narrow CBS vintage aesthetic.

No, there is no option for wide or narrow 12th fret dot spacing on any neck construction that you can choose. The neck construction gives what it gives.

Also if you choose vintage unless you go for a non-maple fretboard you will have a skunk stripe on a one piece maple.

In a previous thread "How true is Warmoth to Vintage specs?" and others you asked similar questions. If you want an authentic recreation as close as possible to a pre CBS large headstock, Warmoth do not offer those options that can be mixed and matched to get what you want. The best you will get from Warmoth options is a compromise to what you are trying to do.

"How true is Warmoth to Vintage specs?"

 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
Deep Purple in Rock said:
stratamania said:
They are narrow spaced. There is not an option from Warmoth for different spacing.

Sure there is.
Look at the spacing between the vintage and the modern/vintage and modern in this video.
The vintage construction has the wide spacing while the others have the narrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XXcDiPcKc&ab_channel=WarmothGuitarProducts

So I am wondering if this is the case for the CBS neck too.
Are they routing a vintage pre cbs strat neck but with a larger headstock?
That would lead to a CBS neck with a wide spacing instead of the vintage correct narrow CBS vintage aesthetic.

No, there is no option for wide or narrow 12th fret dot spacing on any neck construction that you can choose. The neck construction gives what it gives.

Also if you choose vintage unless you go for a non-maple fretboard you will have a skunk stripe on a one piece maple.

In a previous thread "How true is Warmoth to Vintage specs?" and others you asked similar questions. If you want an authentic recreation as close as possible to a pre CBS large headstock, Warmoth do not offer those options that can be mixed and matched to get what you want. The best you will get from Warmoth options is a compromise to what you are trying to do.

"How true is Warmoth to Vintage specs?"

Yeah, that's my point.

The construction decides the spacing, and if you are looking for a vintage CBS spacing and choose the vintage CBS construction, you won't get the narrow spacing but a wide spacing which isn't vintage correct to the CBS.
That's what I wanted to find out and now I know that the vintage construction for the CBS neck isn't vintage at all.

Nothing vintage about it, the spacing is wrong, no maple cap options but only a one piece construction (one piece constructions had the bullet truss rod and not a skunk stripe tear, except for the 25th anniversary edition in 1979), just change the name, it's misleading.
Pseudo-Vintage CBS neck is a much better name.

They took the vintage specs for the small headstock strat (pre mid-1964), slapped the same specs on a CBS neck and call it vintage.
Even though the CBS vintage necks from 1966 to the end of the CBS large headstock era have nothing in common with the pre CBS vintage necks (well, they do have some things in common of course).
Anyways, got the answer to my question.

Thanks guys.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,220
Deep Purple in Rock said:
Yeah, that's my point.

The construction decides the spacing, and if you are looking for a vintage CBS spacing and choose the vintage CBS construction, you won't get the narrow spacing but a wide spacing which isn't vintage correct to the CBS.
That's what I wanted to find out and now I know that the vintage construction for the CBS neck isn't vintage at all.

Sure I understand that but you are missing the point that is in the other thread I linked to that Warmoth and in Aarons video that Warmoth are not recreating replicas of vintage Fender instruments.

Vintage, Vintage Modern and Modern in Warmoth parlance is equated with the construction methodology rather than strict adherence to old Fender specs. Some specs are similar but more an idealised version than an accurate 100% recreation.

Deep Purple in Rock said:
Nothing vintage about it, the spacing is wrong, no maple cap options but only a one piece construction (one piece constructions had the bullet truss rod and not a skunk stripe tear, except for the 25th anniversary edition in 1979), just change the name, it's misleading.
Pseudo-Vintage CBS neck is a much better name.

Between 64 and 66 Fender were going through various transitions which I won't detail fully here.

But there are a couple of things in this that you mention which are not totally accurate.

With large headstocks after CBS took over Fender a 66 slab maple board did not have a bullet truss rod at all. They had a heel adjust truss rod. Later when the bullet truss rods were introduced slab board maple was gone and skunk stripes were there.

I think you started this journey looking at the FCS Malmsteen which is somewhat similar to a 66 slab board with scallops and you were asking at the time about F tuners. But that Malmsteen is not accurate either as in 66 a slab board would most likely have had Kluson style tuners not F tuners.

The 25th anniversary edition in 1979 had a skunk stripe and a headstock tear in Walnut. It was heel adjust. I know this for certain as I bought one new at the time. It also did not have F style tuners as other strats of the time. Another difference was it was a 4 bolt neck versus the 3 bolt microtilt as other strats of the time. The point of the 25th was that it was referencing different periods of the Strat up till that time with it's own take on it. Despite what you might read on the web about the 25th the tuners were also not locking tuners.


Deep Purple in Rock said:
They took the vintage specs for the small headstock strat (pre mid-1964), slapped the same specs on a CBS neck and call it vintage, even though the CBS vintage neck from 1966 to the end of the CBS learge headstock era have nothing in common (well, they do have some things in common of course).
Anyways, got the answer to my question.

Thanks guys.

What actually are you trying to spec out in the end? As it seems you may be chasing an idealised version of a 66 neck which may in reality not match.  Are you still wanting scallops?
 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
Deep Purple in Rock said:
Yeah, that's my point.

The construction decides the spacing, and if you are looking for a vintage CBS spacing and choose the vintage CBS construction, you won't get the narrow spacing but a wide spacing which isn't vintage correct to the CBS.
That's what I wanted to find out and now I know that the vintage construction for the CBS neck isn't vintage at all.

Sure I understand that but you are missing the point that is in the other thread I linked to that Warmoth and in Aarons video that Warmoth are not recreating replicas of vintage Fender instruments.

Vintage, Vintage Modern and Modern in Warmoth parlance is equated with the construction methodology rather than strict adherence to old Fender specs. Some specs are similar but more an idealised version than an accurate 100% recreation.


Deep Purple in Rock said:
Yeah, that's my point.

The construction decides the spacing, and if you are looking for a vintage CBS spacing and choose the vintage CBS construction, you won't get the narrow spacing but a wide spacing which isn't vintage correct to the CBS.
That's what I wanted to find out and now I know that the vintage construction for the CBS neck isn't vintage at all.

Deep Purple in Rock said:
Nothing vintage about it, the spacing is wrong, no maple cap options but only a one piece construction (one piece constructions had the bullet truss rod and not a skunk stripe tear, except for the 25th anniversary edition in 1979), just change the name, it's misleading.
Pseudo-Vintage CBS neck is a much better name.

Between 64 and 66 Fender were going through various transitions which I won't detail fully here.

But there are a couple of things in this that you mention which are not totally accurate.

With large headstocks after CBS took over Fender a 66 slab maple board did not have a bullet truss rod at all. They had a heel adjust truss rod. Later when the bullet truss rods were introduced slab board maple was gone and skunk stripes were there.

I think you started this journey looking at the FCS Malmsteen which is somewhat similar to a 66 slab board with scallops and you were asking at the time about F tuners. But that Malmsteen is not accurate either as in 66 a slab board would most likely have had Kluson style tuners.

The 25th anniversary edition in 1979 had a skunk stripe and a headstock tear in Walnut. It was heel adjust. I know this for certain as I bought one new at the time. It also did not have F style tuners as other strats of the time. Another difference was it was a 4 bolt neck versus the 3 bolt microtilt as other strats of the time.



Deep Purple in Rock said:
They took the vintage specs for the small headstock strat (pre mid-1964), slapped the same specs on a CBS neck and call it vintage, even though the CBS vintage neck from 1966 to the end of the CBS learge headstock era have nothing in common (well, they do have some things in common of course).
Anyways, got the answer to my question.

Thanks guys.

What actually are you trying to spec out in the end? As it seems you may be chasing an idealised version of a 66 neck which may in reality not match.  Are you still wanting scallops?

Oh this has nothing to do with the Malmsteen neck, I'm just trying to learn more about the options that Warmoth offers before I order anything.
It looks like Warmoth is the place to go these days, seems like Musikraft has thrown QC down the drain the last 2 years.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,220
Where do you get the idea of MK QC?

By the way my last post I have just updated a couple of points.
 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
Where do you get the idea of MK QC?

By the way my last post I have just updated a couple of points.

The Gear Page, TDPI forum and so on.
Seen a couple of threads where people are talking about back bows, necks warping after some time, non functioning truss rods, horrible fret work, their fret guy of 13 years got the boot (he has an account on the TDPI forum and said it all), blatantly disrespectful attitude when it comes to make things right.

Several times have I seen that the answer from Musikraft to a badly shaped headstock or whatever other aesthetic problem is "well, there is nothing wrong with it, it's still playable". What the hell? What kind of an attitude is that? You might as well ship paddle headstocks with random neck profiles, random inlays to people who ordered specific necks if "it's still playable" is the only important factor. I don't know man, it has kind of turned me away from taking my chances with them.

You had a better experience with them recently?
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,220
I have not ordered a Musikraft for some years.

Though I must say I have not come across posts such as what you mention on TGP though I don't frequent TDPRI often. That said there is often a lot of negative info posted on the web and not all of it reliable so it perhaps should be taken with a pinch of salt especially if it involves former employees who may be disgruntled. Who knows?


 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
I have not ordered a Musikraft for some years.

Though I must say I have not come across posts such as what you mention on TGP though I don't frequent TDPRI often. That said there is often a lot of negative info posted on the web and not all of it reliable so it perhaps should be taken with a pinch of salt especially if it involves former employees who may be disgruntled. Who knows?

Yeah, I get what you are saying.
The thing is that I live in Europe, if I lived in the USA I would have placed an order.
Then if things went south, it would have been a lot easier to deal with them, wouldn't have been so expensive either.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,220
Deep Purple in Rock said:
stratamania said:
I have not ordered a Musikraft for some years.

Though I must say I have not come across posts such as what you mention on TGP though I don't frequent TDPRI often. That said there is often a lot of negative info posted on the web and not all of it reliable so it perhaps should be taken with a pinch of salt especially if it involves former employees who may be disgruntled. Who knows?

Yeah, I get what you are saying.
The thing is that I live in Europe, if I lived in the USA I would have placed an order.
Then if things went south, it would have been a lot easier to deal with them, wouldn't have been so expensive either.

I live in Europe also so I can understand that.  Its okay if all goes according to plan but if you need to RMA something wherever it came from or which supplier it is not as straightforward and could be costly depending on the outcome.
 

Sadie-f

Senior member
Messages
427
Deep Purple in Rock said:
It looks like Warmoth is the place to go these days, seems like Musikraft has thrown QC down the drain the last 2 years.

That does not square with my experience. I received a musikraft neck just about a year ago, there are some things I like about it a little better than the warmoth neck that I received late last year and there are some things that I like a little better about the warmoth.

The main advantage I see about musikraft  from the perspective of the things you say you're looking for, is that you can select between vintage and modern 12th fret markings on just about any neck you order.

The other big disadvantage right now to musikraft is they seem to have much longer lead times
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,220
I actually did a search for some of the mentioned negative info regarding MK. It really is not much at all and I really would take it as not really reliable information versus the amount of positive feedback there is.

For me I would be just as confident ordering from MK or Warmoth.
 

JohnnyHardtail

Senior member
Messages
319
I only ordered one MK neck, but I thought there was an obvious difference in the approach between the two companies.

MK seem focused on replicating vintage style and feel, whereas Warmoth necks are more precisely made and have much better fretwork than the MK example I purchased.
 
Top