Warmoth Quality Issues?

[CrabCakes7]

I've generally had really good experiences with Warmoth in the past, with my last set of 3 bodies and 3 necks purchased in the mid-2010's all being of excellent quality, but my more recent orders have all had major issues that I'm not used to seeing from the brand.

I recently received a Strat Replacement Body that had several finish imperfections as well as a Strat Replacement Neck with a severe backbow and several frets that weren't fully seated. All straight out of the box. The neck in particular was pretty egregious because the issues were pretty easy to see by eye as soon as I looked at it, so I'm not sure that it went through any sort of QC check or process at all before it was sent out.

Warmoth did agree to take the neck back for warranty work due to the frets not being fully seated, but they seemed disinterested in the backbow issue which has me pretty concerned becuase neck is completely unworkable as-is because of it. So I'm not sure if the neck will even be playable when I get it back. They have not yet agreed to anything on the body.

This all has me pretty disappointed because I have several thousand dollars worth of custom spec parts currently on order from them for a few other builds I'm doing but if this is quality I should expect I'm inclined to just cancel it all and walk away.

Has anyone else had any other similar experiences with recently purchased Warmoth parts? Have there been any quality changes/issues recently that I wasn't aware of?

Honestly, just feeling pretty down about the whole situation.

 

[Hodgo]

I've generally had really good experiences with Warmoth in the past, with my last set of 3 bodies and 3 necks purchased in the mid-2010's all being of excellent quality, but my more recent orders have all had major issues that I'm not used to seeing from the brand.

I recently received a Strat Replacement Body that had several finish imperfections as well as a Strat Replacement Neck with a severe backbow and several frets that weren't fully seated. All straight out of the box. The neck in particular was pretty egregious because the issues were pretty easy to see by eye as soon as I looked at it, so I'm not sure that it went through any sort of QC check or process at all before it was sent out.

Warmoth did agree to take the neck back for warranty work due to the frets not being fully seated, but they seemed disinterested in the backbow issue which has me pretty concerned becuase neck is completely unworkable as-is because of it. So I'm not sure if the neck will even be playable when I get it back. They have not yet agreed to anything on the body.

This all has me pretty disappointed because I have several thousand dollars worth of custom spec parts currently on order from them for a few other builds I'm doing but if this is quality I should expect I'm inclined to just cancel it all and walk away.

Has anyone else had any other similar experiences with recently purchased Warmoth parts? Have there been any quality changes/issues recently that I wasn't aware of?

Honestly, just feeling pretty down about the whole situation.

Nothing that egregious, but my most recent neck had side dots installed seemingly without glue. I used painters tape to mask the frets and the side dots pulled out. Otherwise it was flawless.

 

[NedRyerson]

I get that it can be disappointing. I haven't experienced any such issues, but to be honest, I always get all my components raw. All of the necks I'd bought in the last few years have arrived flawless in terms of construction.

Best thing to do is to just keep working with CS. Don't try any fixes yourself. We could all just sit here comfortably speculating from a distance, but that's not helpful. Sorry you're going through this.

 

[CrabCakes7]

I get that it can be disappointing. I haven't experienced any such issues, but to be honest, I always get all my components raw. All of the necks I'd bought in the last few years have arrived flawless in terms of construction.

Best thing to do is to just keep working with CS. Don't try any fixes yourself. We could all just sit here comfortably speculating from a distance, but that's not helpful. Sorry you're going through this.

Unfortunately, the CS response thus far hasn't been great which is where a good bit of my concern stems from.

When I first contacted Warmoth they requested pictures of the issues before they would issue an RMA, which felt like a reasonable ask on their part. The frets not being fully seated was simple enough to demonstrate as I could slide a piece of paper under several of them. For the backbow, I used my notched straight edge to show the gap underneath it at each end and that I could still slide a 1/32" gauge underneath it despite the truss rod being completely loosened (which is a lot of backbow, very easy to see by eye).

When they got back to me, they agreed to take the neck back for the frets but insisted that "you can't measure the straightness of a compound radius neck with a notched straight edge" which is unequivocally false. So I then had to politely argue with the CS rep and explain why that is untrue and they basically just handwaved it away and sent me a shipping label.

So now I'm worried they are only going to fix the frets and the neck will still be completely unusable when I get it back because they're unwilling to acknowledge the other issue. They did the same with the finish issues on the body, still nothing on that.

I'm not sure if there someone I can escalate this to?

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Is the back bow while rod is fully loose and under tension?

Is it cold and dry where you are?

There are many questions that are reasonable to ask in order to get an objective perspective.

I get em mounted and up to tension, then let them hang on the wall for thirty days to acclimate before moving along.

 

[CrabCakes7]

Is the back bow while rod is fully loose and under tension?

Is it cold and dry where you are?

There are many questions that are reasonable to ask in order to get an objective perspective.

I get em mounted and up to tension, then let them hang on the wall for thirty days to acclimate before moving along.

The neck arrived with a very slight amount of tension on the truss round out of the box. I attempted to loosen it to alleviate some of the backbow but it only had around a half turn of adjustment before it was fully loose and no further correction could be made.

It is cold where I live (Midwest) but my home is very consistent in temperature and humidity. I did let the neck acclimate to my home workshop (70 Degrees/50% RH) for a few days before evaluating it.

Mounting or modifying the neck removes my ability to return the neck per Warmoth's terms and conditions. Additionally, if the neck cannot be made flat without string tension, a proper fret level cannot be performed.

 

[NedRyerson]

"you can't measure the straightness of a compound radius neck with a notched straight edge"

I'm certainly no neck construction expert but that doesn't sound right. The radius primarily affects the geometry laterally across the fretboard from bass to treble side, and less longitudinally from nut to last fret. A straight edge should absolutely be able to demonstrate any gaps if placed in the dead center of the fretboard.

But you're also saying there's back bow with the truss loosened and under no string tension. In my mind, that would mean that you're seeing a gap under your straight edge at both the nut end and the last fret end, right? Isn't that how it's supposed to be, though? If the truss rod is tightened with no string tension to compensate, the back bow would be even more severe until there are strings mounted to counteract the pressure.

Or am I starting to second-guess myself in neck mechanics?

 

[CrabCakes7]

I'm certainly no neck construction expert but that doesn't sound right. The radius primarily affects the geometry laterally across the fretboard from bass to treble side, and less longitudinally from nut to last fret. A straight edge should absolutely be able to demonstrate any gaps if placed in the dead center of the fretboard.

You are correct in that they are incorrect.

You absolutely can use notched straight edge to measure the relief of a compound radius neck but the straight edge must be perfectly centered and perfectly parallel to the fretboard to get a good measurement. You're essentially measuring the straightness of the surface of a cone vs the surface of a cylinder (where the straight edge only needs to be parallel to the surface rather than centered and parallel).

But you're also saying there's back bow with the truss loosened and under no string tension. In my mind, that would mean that you're seeing a gap under your straight edge at both the nut end and the last fret end, right?

That is correct, with no tension on the truss rod there is a 1/32" gap at the first fret and a 1/64~1/32"" gap at the 22nd.

Isn't that how it's supposed to be, though?

No, a guitar neck should ideally be perfectly straight or slightly forward-bowed without any string pressure (so it can be made straight by tightening the truss rod).

If the truss rod is tightened with no string tension to compensate, the back bow would be even more severe until there are strings mounted to counteract the pressure.

Or am I starting to second-guess myself in neck mechanics?

That is correct. All of Warmoth's truss rods are "single action" in that they can only apply pressure to bow the neck backwards against string pressure. The truss rod is not capable of creating a forward-bow on its own, only relieving pressure from the neck to allow it to return to its natural shape. If that shape is not straight or forward-bowed, the truss rod alone cannot fix it.

That is a problem for completing proper fretwork and achieving ideal playability.

String pressure will counteract the backbow a bit but it will not compensate for a 1/64~1/32" gap unless heavy gauge strings are used. Trying to compensate for a backbowed neck in this manner also tends to cause other issues like a wavy neck (typically with a hollow forming around the lower-middle of the neck and a hump forming in upper end), relief adjustment range issues, fret leveling problems, etc.

 

[NedRyerson]

Thanks, Crab. I knew I was missing something.

 

[Rick]

Thread 'Severe back bow on Modern construction neck, any way to fix it ?'

Apr 5, 2022

Just noticed Modern construction neck I ordered last summer, stained in December, and finally got back from the finish shop couple weeks ago has in fact developed a massive back bow even without tightening the truss rod at all.

No idea if that happened while storing it before staining, after, or while waiting for a finish at the finishing shop. It doesn't matter since it was ordered w/o the penetrating sealer and is therefore not covered under warranty (well understood when ordering that way).

Do you guys know of any technique to attempt fixing this ?

It's that bad with the straight...

• docteurseb
• Replies: 56
• Forum: General Guitar Discussion

 

[CrabCakes7]

Another neck I had on order came in this afternoon with similar fret install issues. Luckily not backbowed like the first, but several frets weren't fully seated on this one as well. It actually looks like the fret slots on the upper half of the neck weren't cut deep enough.





I think I've settled on just sending everything back, canceling my existing orders, and getting my money back.

 

[Waraxe]

I've had fret seating issues on 2 of 3 necks.

Both maple, both finished, both with ss frets. One was an '09, the other a '22.

I could hook my fingernail underneath a few on one neck. This one I seated with a block of wood and a hammer. Worked great until a mishap dented a few frets, to which I had it leveled. It's been great since.

The 2nd one had 1 high fret, but it was a Doozie. 20th fret on the bass side. Super unseated. I whacked this one down a bit, then had to level and shape it. It works, but I shouldn't have had to do it.

 

[Spud]

10 Warmoth necks (aside from some fret leveling) no issues with any.

 

[Don O]

10 Warmoth necks (aside from some fret leveling) no issues with any.

Same here, many Warmoth necks (and bodies), no issues.

 

[CrabCakes7]

I've had fret seating issues on 2 of 3 necks.

Both maple, both finished, both with ss frets. One was an '09, the other a '22.

I could hook my fingernail underneath a few on one neck. This one I seated with a block of wood and a hammer. Worked great until a mishap dented a few frets, to which I had it leveled. It's been great since.

The 2nd one had 1 high fret, but it was a Doozie. 20th fret on the bass side. Super unseated. I whacked this one down a bit, then had to level and shape it. It works, but I shouldn't have had to do it.

Yeah, both of the necks I've had issues with so far have had SS frets as well. They do require a lot more care to install properly in my experience but the expectation is that if Warmoth is offering them as an option that they should be capable of installing them properly.

Did the glued fret tangs give you any trouble when you reseated them?

The frets in the middle of the neck look like they might be fixable with a bit of massaging so long as the glue doesn't create any problems but the last 3 frets probably aren't. Those ones aren't even close to being seated and they appear to be bottomed out in the slot when looking at them from the ends so I doubt they'll go any further without risking damage to the ebony board, which might happen anyway when they're pulled so there's some risk either way.

Pretty bummed because this second neck is otherwise quite nice. Would just otherwise need a bit of cleanup on the headstock and fret/fretboard ends and It'd be all set for leveling and setup.

 

[Waraxe]

Yeah, both of the necks I've had issues with so far have had SS frets as well. They do require a lot more care to install properly in my experience but the expectation is that if Warmoth is offering them as an option that they should be capable of installing them properly.

Did the glued fret tangs give you any trouble when you reseated them?

The frets in the middle of the neck look like they might be fixable with a bit of massaging so long as the glue doesn't create any problems but the last 3 frets probably aren't. Those ones aren't even close to being seated and they appear to be bottomed out in the slot when looking at them from the ends so I doubt they'll go any further without risking damage to the ebony board, which might happen anyway when they're pulled so there's some risk either way.

Pretty bummed because this second neck is otherwise quite nice. Would just otherwise need a bit of cleanup on the headstock and fret/fretboard ends and It'd be all set for leveling and setup.

Seating them wasn't much of an issue.

I did learn something though - use a piece of hardwood, not a 2x4.

Why? Because ibdented the s**t out of my brand new fretboard. A drop fill with ca glue, razor blading, fine sanding, and 15 years of playing has all but made these disappear.

I think being less pliable/flexible, ss needs to be pre bent to match the radius better.

 

[CrabCakes7]

Thanks Waraxe, I appreciate you sharing your experience.

Although it was really tempting to try and fix it myself, I ultimately decided against it as it would be on me if I messed anything up.

Some good news for a change though. Warmoth did finally get back to me and we were able to come to an agreement on how to handle the situation. They're going to take the necks back and fix them if possible. If they still have issues when I get them back, they've agreed that in additional to getting my money back for the necks, I can also return any other parts I've purchased for these builds so long everything is in as-received condition, even though they'll be outside the normal 10 business day return window.

That seems fair to me. Not thrilled about waiting another month for fixes on new, out of the box parts but I'm willing to give them a chance to fix it so long as I'm protected in the event that they aren't able to get it together.

 

[teleme01]

Sounds reasonable to me, I am a casual observer and from my couch, I believe that the ervana nut necks may get more scrutiny, but I am very casual.

 

[Bassistlaw]

You are correct in that they are incorrect.

You absolutely can use notched straight edge to measure the relief of a compound radius neck but the straight edge must be perfectly centered and perfectly parallel to the fretboard to get a good measurement. You're essentially measuring the straightness of the surface of a cone vs the surface of a cylinder (where the straight edge only needs to be parallel to the surface rather than centered and parallel).

That is correct, with no tension on the truss rod there is a 1/32" gap at the first fret and a 1/64~1/32"" gap at the 22nd.

No, a guitar neck should ideally be perfectly straight or slightly forward-bowed without any string pressure (so it can be made straight by tightening the truss rod).

That is correct. All of Warmoth's truss rods are "single action" in that they can only apply pressure to bow the neck backwards against string pressure. The truss rod is not capable of creating a forward-bow on its own, only relieving pressure from the neck to allow it to return to its natural shape. If that shape is not straight or forward-bowed, the truss rod alone cannot fix it.

That is a problem for completing proper fretwork and achieving ideal playability.

String pressure will counteract the backbow a bit but it will not compensate for a 1/64~1/32" gap unless heavy gauge strings are used. Trying to compensate for a backbowed neck in this manner also tends to cause other issues like a wavy neck (typically with a hollow forming around the lower-middle of the neck and a hump forming in upper end), relief adjustment range issues, fret leveling problems, etc.

Not all of Warmoth truss rods are “single action” only the vintage construction are. Modern construction necks have two way adjustments. You can put extreme bow into a neck if you want too.

 

[CrabCakes7]

Not all of Warmoth truss rods are “single action” only the vintage construction are. Modern construction necks have two way adjustments. You can put extreme bow into a neck if you want too.

I'm sorry but that is incorrect. Warmoth's double rod design in their modern construction necks is single action.

Here is a video explaining how their Modern Construction truss rod works:

Notice how the rod starts out straight before the nut is even on and tightening the nut will cause it to begin flexing backwards due to the offset placement of the threaded rod. If the nut is instead loosened, it will go back to being straight and then the nut will begin to unthread from the rod. There is no way to for the nut to force the rod to start flexing in the opposite direction, which is what it would need to do to be a "Dual Action" rod.

The forward bow you're seeing when the truss rod nut is loosened isn't due to forces from the truss rod, but rather from to the natural curvature of the neck combined with tension from the strings. Warmoth intenionally machines their necks with a little bit of forward bow pre-integrated in, which is fairly typical for neck manufactures in my experience to avoid backbow related issues.