Warmoth angled neck pockets

[JerseyTrash]

I have a question for those of you who have built a Warmoth guitar with a TOM/STP + Angled neck pocket construction: Do you know how many degrees of an angle you made to the neck?

I'm trying to go for a Gibson feel, and according to the Gibson website, their Les Pauls have a 5 degree angle. However, I spoke to Warmoth and they told me that their angled neck pockets on all their bodies are closer to 1.5 degrees.

Anyone know if it will be a huge issue if I try to increase the angle (maybe by adding a shim or something...?) to a relatively flat-bodied Fender-style guitar? Would I have to angle the TOM bridge + pickups?

I just *really* don't like the feel of "flat" guitars where the neck and body are flush (Ibanez, Fender, etc.). At least not as much as I like angled ones (Gibson, ESP, Schecter).

Thanks!

 

[bagman67]

I would set it up the way it comes together most naturally and see if it approximates the "Gibson feel" you think you're after, and then doctor it from there if you find the initial setup unsatisfactory.  After the initial setup, yes, a shim is a perfectly valid way to modify the neck angle.  You would then raise the altitude of the TOM bridge and pickups to get the action and sound you want.

 

[JerseyTrash]

Great, thats what I was thinking.

Thanks!

 

[Verne Bunsen]

If this is in reference to your Mustang build, bear in mind that your pickups mounted in the pickguard won't be able to adjust nearly as high as a humbucker in a mounting ring or a P-90 can in a Gibson style guitar. The Mustang I did was shimmed to about 1.5 degrees, probably a hair less, and the bridge pickup (a SD Hot Rails which is actually pretty tall to begin with) was maxed out. I actually had to pull it and cut the surgical tubing on the adjustment screws down to just about nothing to gain a few more mm and get it where I wanted it. Do you know if the TOM route is recessed in this application? That would help significantly, mine was not.

 

[JerseyTrash]

I really have no idea. As the TOM option is technically not even a standard option, I'm not sure if it would be recessed or not.

But if its high, then it begs the question, is there any way to artificially lift the single coil pickup so that it works? Maybe a longer pickup cover...? 

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Firstly, to correct something I said earlier: As I think about it more, I don't believe the recessed bridge route wouldn't actually do anything for you, the bridge height will have to be what it will have to be to get the geometry right.

With a standard Strat/Mustang style pickup it's possible that a longer cover (or eliminating the cover entirely) could give you a little more travel,  but with my SD Hot Rails and likewise I believe with your GFS Lil Killers there's not a separate cover in play. The two-block is at the bottom flange of the pickup: once it meets the pickguard, that's all there is. With the 1.5 degree angle, I think you'd be able to get what you need without any real drama. It's just the notion of increasing the neck angle a few extra degrees that makes me think you might get into a pickle. If you had to, the only practical way I can think of to get around the pickup height adjustment issue would be to route the pickguard hole large enough for the whole pickup to pass through, then either wood-mount the pickup on foam or devise something... clever. As the Bagman said, my advice would be to set it up as-is, see where you are at in terms of feel and your adjustment ranges, then make an educated decision to shim further or not.

 

[BigSteve22]

Just got my daily e-mail from Stew-Mac. These look interesting, and might be just the thing for changing a neck angle.

http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Bodies_and_Necks_and_Wood/Electric_Guitar_Bodies_and_Necks_and_Wood/Electric_Guitar_Necks/StewMac_Bolt-on_Neck_Shims.html?lac_guid=032987fc-4c2e-e611-a7c7-bc305bee17b9&utm_campaign=m4958&utm_medium=email&utm_source=EPA&utm_content=m4958_C_20160608

A little on the pricey side, but If I needed them, it's probably cheaper than the time it would take to make them.

 

[Cagey]

I suspect the .5° to 1.5°angle you would get by modifying the neck pocket to suit a taller bridge would not be perceptible. Hasn't been on anything I've built. The Gibson "feel" is much more severe at 5°.

As for those pricey shims from StewMac, I've got a couple coming that should be here tomorrow to correct for a tall bridge on a Tele I'm putting together. It's a flat-top Tele, so I'll be able to tell if I can feel the change in neck angle. I doubt I'll remember this thread by noon today, so ping me back in about a week. I've still got to fret the neck that's going on the thing.

 

[JerseyTrash]

Awesome, thanks Cagey!

 

[DangerousR6]

A tom/stop bridge requires a 1.5 to 3 degree angle. Which is relatively the same for a non recessed Floyd. The angle mostly depends on the body style. Flat top bodies usually don't require as steep an angle as carved top. i would assume this was the reason behind Gibson using such a steep 5 degree angle on the LP's. So personally I wouldn't see there would be gain to increase the angle, unless you were having trouble as Cagey mentioned, even for the purpose of 'Feel".

 

[JerseyTrash]

I suspect the .5° to 1.5°angle you would get by modifying the neck pocket to suit a taller bridge would not be perceptible. Hasn't been on anything I've built. The Gibson "feel" is much more severe at 5°.

As for those pricey shims from StewMac, I've got a couple coming that should be here tomorrow to correct for a tall bridge on a Tele I'm putting together. It's a flat-top Tele, so I'll be able to tell if I can feel the change in neck angle. I doubt I'll remember this thread by noon today, so ping me back in about a week. I've still got to fret the neck that's going on the thing.

I just pinged you, Cagey.

I got my new guitar and its fully assembled, but as I feared, the angle is not quiiiiiiiiite what I was hoping for. I was hoping just adding the 1.5 degree shims (by using both of the shims in the stew mac pack) would help me get closer.

Also, concerning the pickup height, I don't think it'll be that bad an issue, as I noticed that I can currently raise the PUs almost as high as the strings, and they're pretty hot, so I don't think it'll be too much of an issue. Hopefully. *Fingers crossed*

 

[Cagey]

I installed them and they did exactly what I wanted it to. There's two shims in the set, a 1° and a .5°, and I had to use both. That set the neck back from perfectly parallel to a 1.5° tiltback, and lowered the strings at the 22nd fret .5" to a near perfect height with the bridge fully lowered.

So, if 1.5° gave me a .5" change in string height at the 22nd fret, then if the strings had already been in the right place to start with, it would have meant the headstock effectively moved back that much, give or take a few thousandths, so I'd have had to raise the bridge.

It's a small enough amount that as for feel, I couldn't tell they were in there. I pulled out my Les Paul and tried to measure the tiltback on that neck, but because of various interferences I couldn't get a solid reading. As close as I could tell, that has about a 5° tiltback. If 1.5° causes .5" change, then 5° should cause roughly 1.6", which you can feel. Hell, you can see it without any instruments.

So, long story short, if you're looking for a change in feel, I suspect you'd be disappointed. These shims are more to compensate for a bridge height that's slightly outside of normal adjustment range than to change the feel of the instrument.