Vortex headstock: Why not straight string pull?

[gcvsa]

I don't really understand why the Vortex headstock doesn't have a straight string pull. I want to get one, but I want it finished by Warmoth, and I don't want to have to order it without tuning machine holes drilled, and then have to drill through the pretty finish, much less have to shave down the sides of the headstock so that the tuning machines fit after drilling the holes in the right place for straight string pull.

 

[AirCap]

First - the diameter of the posts on various brands and models of tuning machines can affect the amount of deviation from straight string pull.

Second - why will shaving the sides of the peghead affect the location of the tuning machines?

Am I missing something, or are you?

 

[TBurst Std]

Because the tuner heads may not clear the sides of the headstock.

 

[Cagey]

Here's a shot of a Vortex headstock strung up...

As you can see, the string pull isn't perfectly straight, but they're not bending all over the place like they do on some designs. I don't have any problems with that one, although the vibrato is pretty tame (Bigsby) so things don't get exercised the way they would on some configurations.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

It's difficult to get a symmetrical 3x3 headstock to have dead on straight pull.  Carvin/Keissel is the closest one that comes to mind with the smaller CT headstock.

After that, you'd have to do as EVH did with the Peavey & now Fender/EVH which is make one side of the 3x3 offset from the other side slightly so that the gear housings of the tuners are no longer an issue.  The Set tab is also an issue with some tuners, but there are plenty of locking tuners out there that don't use them, and rather use a knurl built into the gear housing bottom.  Schaller locking tuners purchased from Stew Mac are like this, so are the Sperzels.  These are the only styled tuners I've seen on the aforementioned Carvin/Keissel model that I mentioned above too.  It's more of an issue with the D & G strings.  The other strings don't pose a collision risk otherwise.

 

[gcvsa]

I was looking up the PRS headstock as a comparison, but I guess I was wrong. I had it in my head that they had a completely straight string pull.

 

[TBurst Std]

Nope, PRS is not.  Their D and G tuners though could be closer together. 

 

[SustainerPlayer]

The Ibanez Talman headstock:

 

[aarontunes]

On a symmetrical headstock, it's dang near impossible to get the D and the G string tuners close enough together for a perfectly straight string pull. Even PRS, who uses a very specific tuner, doesn't do it. Wanna know why? Because they build in a little margin for error, in case the dimensions of their tuner ever have to change.


Now imagine Warmoth's challenge, when thousands and thousands of different customers all have different ideas about what tuners they want to use.

 

[aarontunes]

The Ibanez Talman headstock:

The first things my eye is draw to in that photo are the crooked truss rod cover, and the man in the G tuner.

 

[AirCap]

Now imagine Warmoth's challenge, when thousands and thousands of different customers all have different ideas about what tuners they want to use.

BINGO. You win the internet today.

 

[dmraco]

Like Tony said Tuners are the issue.  Fender did it.    They are very close.  On the EVH style headstock I created on my EVH build, there was very little room to spare.  The headstock FEELs small on these guitars.  Most likely because it is.

 

[pabloman]

The Jackson 3x3 has a straight string pull as well.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

This is the closest "truly" symmetrical headstock that I've seen as the tuners on the bass side are in the same locations as those on the treble side; ie, E & E are the same distance from the nut, A & B are the same distance from the nut, D &G are the same distance from the nut.  It's like they drew up the bass side, folded the paper along the centerline & copied the drawing to the treble side.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s205/truedog1/Carvin/P1010534_zps62961cb7.jpg

From there, all other "symmetrical headstocks slide either the bass side or the treble side further from the nut to avoid collision of the tuner gear housings.
Page 2, 6th post, 2 headstocks side by side.
http://www.kieselguitarsbbs.com/viewtopic.php?t=45309&start=20

 

[Cagey]

Steinberger makes some locking tuners that are vertically-oriented and have a high ratio for easy fine-tuning...

You could probably space those pretty close without gear housing interference.

 

[Logrinn]

Or - if you don't mind not having locking tuners - there's Gotoh's Stealth Keys.
You should be able to construct a 3+3 headstock with straight stringpull without any problems by using those I imagine.

 

[Cagey]

Clearly there are ways of doing it. But, as Aaron pointed out, an aftermarket supplier like Warmoth couldn't offer a headstock that relied on something like that without alienating a good percentage of the market. Look how many people still  demand Kluson tuners, or at least something that looks like the miserable things.

 

[gcvsa]

On a symmetrical headstock, it's dang near impossible to get the D and the G string tuners close enough together for a perfectly straight string pull. Even PRS, who uses a very specific tuner, doesn't do it. Wanna know why? Because they build in a little margin for error, in case the dimensions of their tuner ever have to change.


Now imagine Warmoth's challenge, when thousands and thousands of different customers all have different ideas about what tuners they want to use.

Right, but they could at least offer the option.

 

[stratamania]

On a symmetrical headstock, it's dang near impossible to get the D and the G string tuners close enough together for a perfectly straight string pull. Even PRS, who uses a very specific tuner, doesn't do it. Wanna know why? Because they build in a little margin for error, in case the dimensions of their tuner ever have to change.


Now imagine Warmoth's challenge, when thousands and thousands of different customers all have different ideas about what tuners they want to use.

Right, but they could at least offer the option.

But that's the point which option?
There are too many possibilities to offer such a thing is what doubleA was explaining, and he works for Warmoth.

 

[ByteFrenzy]

On a symmetrical headstock, it's dang near impossible to get the D and the G string tuners close enough together for a perfectly straight string pull. Even PRS, who uses a very specific tuner, doesn't do it. Wanna know why? Because they build in a little margin for error, in case the dimensions of their tuner ever have to change.


Now imagine Warmoth's challenge, when thousands and thousands of different customers all have different ideas about what tuners they want to use.

Right, but they could at least offer the option.

You can always ask them to NOT drill the holes. They have done that for me and I now have a SSB with Hipshot Ultralite tuners.