Trying to tame my damn Floyd (SOLVED!!!)

[Cederick]

So I had my friend over to get my Warmoth Soloist in tune, which has the Original Floyd Rose...
He got it in tune, and it stayed in tune for like three days. The problem was he never wanted to intonate it because he didn't have a clue to do it.

So I took some video lessons and intonated it (hated it!!! took like an hour without the key and tremol-no!!!!! I'm getting those soon... Argh!!!) and it seemed like it was good and then I had to adjust the springs on the back because the bridge was tilting a bit. I tuned up to pitch and adjusted the springs from there

Ok now all seems fine, but trying to tune it is a nightmare!!!!!!

I tune all to pitch, from low E to high E, and repeat that until all are at pitch. Which is what I THINK I'm supposed to do? Or am I doing it wrong?!

Because when I lock the nut clamps all strings are dead on pitch, except D which is sharp and low E which is REALLY SHARP!!!! So I cannot use the fine tuners if I'm correct...

And as far as I know, you are supposed to NEVER tune downwards, always upwards. Which is a BIG problem since when the clamps are down, the only strings I need to adjust are... sharp! The others are spot on and in tune, but low E and D are sharp and since I'm not supposed to tune down, I'm screwed!!!

Ok this is really starting to piss me off really bad because I loved the soloist the last few days, but once a string broke I had to change strings and now everything seems totally hopeless!

Ok in conclusion, the questions are:

Should I tune to pitch before locking the clamps, or just close to?
If a string IS sharp after locking the clamps, is it OK to use the fine tuners to tune the strings DOWN?

 

[riverbluff]

Tune to pitch, then lock the nut.  It is normal for the strings to go a bit shape once the nut is locked.  After that, just use the fine tuners to finish tuning the guitar.  It is a good idea to set your fine tuners to a centered position prior to tuning the guitar.  This allows you more adjustment with the fine tuners. 

Nothing suckes more then running out of threads on the fine tuners!

Hope this helps.

Bill

 

[Cederick]

But I have read here: http://www.glowingtubes.com/p/FloydTuning.htm

"***Never go sharp over the desired pitch***!  Always tune UP to the correct pitch then stop and go down to the next string.  The mistake most people make is going sharp and having to tune DOWN.  You'll never get them in tune that way"

So this only have to do with the tuning machines, not the fine tuners?


However I seem to have problem just even getting my damn low E to straighten out... All other strings have straightened out but my E keeps going down in pitch after releasing a big bend... Argh!!!!

 

[thearmofbarlow]

I tune all to pitch, from low E to high E, and repeat that until all are at pitch. Which is what I THINK I'm supposed to do? Or am I doing it wrong?!

Figured I'd finally register here since I'm gearing up for my first Warmoth build and ran smack into something I can help out with.

I've set up many a Floyd. There's a trick to it, and none of them require special tools, add-ons, or keys, or anything else. You WILL need a something. Anything. As long as you can wedge it under the baseplate without marring the finish it doesn't matter what you use. My favorite thing is an allen wrench wrapped in electrical tape.

Here's what you do...

Wedge that little guy under the baseplate so the trem stays flat. Tighten the trem claw a bit to make sure it stays in place. Now restring the guitar and stretch the strings THOROUGHLY. This is where most people mess up. They'll kind of vaguely stretch the string from the middle, which does nothing. Go up and down the string several times until it holds tune properly. This is a very important thing when dealing with a Floyd. Do this with all of the strings. Once they're all stretched, start intonation. It's MUCH easier when the thing is wedged in place. It used to take me about ten minutes to intonate a Floyd and I never used any of the special intonation keys or anything. Don't rush it, move methodically, and always note your adjustments. After you're done with that, SLOWLY release the trem claw until the wedged object comes loose with little to no help. Tune up again, clamp the nut, and you're golden.

Now some specifics on your post.

And as far as I know, you are supposed to NEVER tune downwards, always upwards. Which is a BIG problem since when the clamps are down, the only strings I need to adjust are... sharp! The others are spot on and in tune, but low E and D are sharp and since I'm not supposed to tune down, I'm screwed!!!

There is no such thing as "NEVER" when it comes to guitars. The whole thing about not tuning downwards is to keep your strings from hanging up in the nut. Not applicable on a locking nut. Further, this is a completely stupid assertion if you think about it for a few seconds. Why would a string only catch in the nut in one direction? It's possible for it to hang up either way. Proper nut care (no jokes, please :icon_biggrin: )keeps this from being an issue.

And yes, use the fine tuners. That's why they're there.

Should I tune to pitch before locking the clamps, or just close to?

Tune to pitch completely. Before you do, make sure the fine tuners are set to the middle of their travel. This allows you to make any adjustments that are necessary.

If a string IS sharp after locking the clamps, is it OK to use the fine tuners to tune the strings DOWN?

Yes. Like I said above, that old load of... load... doesn't apply to locknuts at all and actually doesn't apply to properly cut and maintained nuts either.

Hell, if things were THAT sensitive you'd never keep a vintage style trem in tune.

Ok this is really starting to piss me off really bad because I loved the soloist the last few days, but once a string broke I had to change strings and now everything seems totally hopeless!

Unless it involved fire or water NOTHING is hopeless on a guitar. Setting up a Floyd is far simpler a process than it first appears and is in reality no more difficult than setting up a vintage style trem. No big deal, and nothing to get worked up about. It's a pain in the ass the first couple of times but then it'll click and you'll think to yourself "Why did I EVER think this was difficult?"

 

[thearmofbarlow]

But I have read here: http://www.glowingtubes.com/p/FloydTuning.htm

"***Never go sharp over the desired pitch***!  Always tune UP to the correct pitch then stop and go down to the next string.  The mistake most people make is going sharp and having to tune DOWN.  You'll never get them in tune that way"

So this only have to do with the tuning machines, not the fine tuners?


However I seem to have problem just even getting my damn low E to straighten out... All other strings have straightened out but my E keeps going down in pitch after releasing a big bend... Argh!!!!

That is complete BS. Ignore that website. If your strings are going out of tune, stretch them more. This is absolutely key to keeping a Floyd in tune. If that does not work, examine the nut and locks for signs of extreme wear. It's obvious if this is the case.

Use these instructions instead: http://www.blues4kids.com/special_promotions/jackson%20page/jackson_floyd_howto.htm

 

[Cederick]

Haha thanks for the answers...

I was beginning to write that I got the guitar in tune, I have played on it for about an hour now, didn't dare to use the trem arm but yeah finally I made some crazy divebombs and shit and now low E and A is sharp as hell.

How long do you usually have to stretch the strings? I always stretch the strings from beginning to end, even on hardtails. Now I'm getting worried again :doh:

 

[Cederick]

Also, adjusting the springs to get the bridge in line with the body, should I have the clamps un-tightened?

In other words, I unclamp and tune it to pitch and try to make some adjustments... Ah this is not funny  :sad1:


And how atomically perfect can you be? It's actually really hard to see if it's atomically lined up with the body. I have pretty good eyes for this stuff. I can show a neck to somebody who thinks a neck is straight while I think it looks like a banana for example...

 

[Jumble Jumble]

The tuning up thing is to eliminate backlash in tuners. The Floyd fine tuners don't have backlash so you can tune them up or down.

 

[AutoBat]

Getting the bridge to be lined up with the body doesn't have to be perfect, just eyeball it.

 

[Cederick]

Okay I have tried to re-tune my damn guitar about twenty times now, I stretch the strings like a moron and my low E STILL goes sharp!!!!

I tune everything to pitch, lock the clamp, use the fine tuners a bit and make a divebomb and here we go again... All strings in pitch but the low E is REALLY sharp!!!

This is really getting on my nerves, what should I do?!?!?

Is there soemthing wrong with D Addario 009-042 strings or something?! I have the exact same problem with my first set I used which never got out of tune except the low E string occasionally getting a tiny bit sharp after a few hours of playing. Didn't matter how many times I tuned it down using the fine tuner, a few bends of divebombs/pullups and it the low E was sharp again.

AHIHGIHIAEIHAIfou20+12+129 :sad: ??? :icon_scratch: :-\ :sad1: :sad:

 

[Cederick]

I would hate the impossible to have happened, like the bridge is ruined?! I have not used it in any bad way, the only things I may have done wrong was two things:

1. I adjusted string height with the string tension on... I forgot about tuning down the strings. That may have screwed the knife edges?!

2. I tried how hard you had to press with the palm to see why so many people think it goes out of tune when palm muting. I had to press really hard (coming from a regular hard tail player!) to make the strings go sharp. However this makes me worried I actually screwed the bridge or even the wood around the poles. My soloist is made out of basswood, which is quite soft. However it's not like I was using my whole body weight to pres it down, just standing playing and trying to palm mute it out of tune... Quite hard yes but probably not hard enough to destroy it...

What do you think...

 

[AutoBat]

1: you'll be fine.  if you need to adjust it again just push the bar down to make the strings slack.
2: i palm mute my Floyd quite frequently.  the pressure you're putting on it is moot for the wood.  if there's any effect it won't be noticable for many years down the road.  Either you use it and enjoy it, or preserve it and put it in an oxygen free plexiglass container.  Best not to even look at it just in case your vision damages it!

 

[Cederick]

HEhe

Right now my problem is this low E string, HOW MANY HOURS SHOULD I BE STRETCHING IT?! I have done this for about 4 hours in a row now.
It seems like it NEVER gets stretched out enough to use! It always go sharp, why does it go sharp by the way? It should go flat... No wait it goes sharp if I use the tremolo, and it goes down in tune if I bend it. Or stretch it a lot...

Stretching the low E string for over 4 hours and it never gets OK is getting a bit redicolous.
But I don't know, maybe it's normal with Floyds...

 

[croquet hoop]

Wedge that little guy under the baseplate so the trem stays flat. Tighten the trem claw a bit to make sure it stays in place.

Absolutely best piece of advice anyone can give about Floyd maintenance. You WANT to block the trem, or else it will be a nightmare to adjust. Block it so that the baseplate is parallel to the body, tighten the strings to prevent it from moving, then do whatever you have to do — adjust the intonation, just change the strings...

Once it is done, tune the guitar properly, stretch the strings as indicated, play a bit. Adjust tuning, lock the nut, un-block the trem, loosen the strings so that the baseplate is parallel again. Done.

1. I adjusted string height with the string tension on... I forgot about tuning down the strings. That may have screwed the knife edges?!

2. I tried how hard you had to press with the palm to see why so many people think it goes out of tune when palm muting. I had to press really hard (coming from a regular hard tail player!) to make the strings go sharp. However this makes me worried I actually screwed the bridge or even the wood around the poles. My soloist is made out of basswood, which is quite soft. However it's not like I was using my whole body weight to pres it down, just standing playing and trying to palm mute it out of tune... Quite hard yes but probably not hard enough to destroy it...

There is no way you can screw up the knife edges of a quality floyd with a few turns of the posts. Likewise, you won't compromise the stability/integrity of the bridge and its anchor by just pressing hard on it. You could with a big hammer, not with your hands, even if you press hard. Basswood is a soft wood compared to others, but it's not gum either.

 

[Cederick]

Still, how long do I have to stretch this stupid E string?

I use D Addario 009-042 so it's certainly not crap strings, but I like thin strings for smooth playing.
The low E never seems to stretch out! I have been stretching that shit string a million times for over 4 hours now.
Then trying to tune it and it goes sharp...

 

[riverbluff]

HEhe

Right now my problem is this low E string, HOW MANY HOURS SHOULD I BE STRETCHING IT?! I have done this for about 4 hours in a row now.
It seems like it NEVER gets stretched out enough to use! It always go sharp, why does it go sharp by the way? It should go flat... No wait it goes sharp if I use the tremolo, and it goes down in tune if I bend it. Or stretch it a lot...

Stretching the low E string for over 4 hours and it never gets OK is getting a bit redicolous.
But I don't know, maybe it's normal with Floyds...

if you use the trem alot, it is gonna go out of tune.  If it keeps going shape after a dive bomb, then it sounds like the string is hanging on something.  What does your locking nut look like?  Does it have wear grooves in it that may be catching the string?  Is it an original Floyd aor a licensed floyd (ie..  made by someone else but says "Licensed by Floyd Rose).  Take a look at the string blocks where the string clamps into the floyd.  If those are over tightend they can crack, also your string may not be centered and that can cause you problems as well.

How many springs do you have on the back of the floyd?  Is it full floating or surface mounted? 

A locking floyd is not going to always stay in tune.  and will need the occassional tuning tweak after whamming away on it.

A Floyd can be a pain in the but, especially if you are not used to one.  The more moving pieces something has then more chances there are for something to go wrong; and a Floyd has alot of moving parts...

 

[Cederick]

It's a WARMOTH so yeah it's an original floyd rose I don't know why anybody whould go through the hassle of buying great parts from Warmoth and then buying some shitty licensed Floyd. I have never owned a licensed, I know they are shit. You can walk into a guitar store and look at some guitar with lic floyd and take it down and it's usually in tune and then you breath at it and it's out of tune and you why in the hell you would buy that crap... :/

You don't seem to have understand what I've been saying...

I tune it up, bend the low E and it goes sharp. I don't even use the trem arm in the tuning process

Sometimes when it seems like it is in tune I install the arm and make some divebombs and stuff and then it's screwed up again.

 

[croquet hoop]

If the nut is locked, check that it is properly clamped (do not overtighten it, though). If it is not, check that the string is properly wrapped arount the tuner post (you want 1-3 turns, no more).

Then check that the saddle on the tremolo is properly locked (same, it should be firmly screwed, but not overly tight), do the same for the screw/block that hold the string on this end.

If everything is fine mechanically but your E string keeps getting out of tune, I'm afraid I don't know what is wrong.

 

[Cederick]

I'm tightening the nut with my fingers only, when finished there's only a few millimeters left if using the allen wrench... :dontknow:

 

[Cederick]

What's with that about 1-3 turns only with the string? Wouldn't 100 turns be more stable than 1?  :hello2: