True blue ?

[Prometheus]

Say, would anyone happen to know exactly what brand/color of dye Warmoth uses for their blue-dye finish jobs?

I have to match the color. So far, I've worked through several Lockwood powder dyes, both water- and alcohol-based. Also ColorFX, a liquid concentrate dye I've been able to get here (Canada). I have not yet been able to find a source that will ship me MEK dyes from the USA, or TransTint. And I have a sneaking suspicion that one of those might be what I want.

I'm guessing, but I'd bet that they're using something "straight out of the can", that is, not a custom blend but just straight dye. But .... which one? And how can I get it?

It may be possible for me to do the mad scientist thing and blend something that will work. But that's painful, and there's no saying whether I'll actually even be able to get close enough. Most of you who have tried know what I mean - its not until you start trying to mix a matching shade that you appreciate how many shades of a color there are. And the worst seem to be the primaries. Never mind all the artsy nonsense names for colors, just consider terms like "greenish-blue", "warmer red", "deeper", "colder", "brighter", "vibrant", "subdued", etc, etc.

Anyway, a brand, color, and/or source would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Cagey]

Aw, man! Did you screw that body up already? C'mere, so I can kill you.

 

[Prometheus]

Ha !

No way. Not at all. But you may recall a while back I had a post where I was asking a few finishing questions, about doing a headstock front laminate to match the top. Since then I've done a little practicing. I have a lot more practicing to do, but so far seem to be making progress. Here's a sample board...

Not too bad for a rank beginner, I think. More practice to come. But while I was at it, I thought that I could be trying to get the color closer too.

BTW - I have some of my adventures in finishing diarized, if you think anybody'd be interested.

And yeah, you can be sure that I'm waaayyyy picky enough to be sure to get it all down before I approach that neck.

 

[Cagey]

Ok  :icon_biggrin:

Your results so far look really good to me. I don't know if they match the body, but it looks pretty close.

I do know Warmoth won't allow any claims if they finish the neck separate from the body and you're not happy, so it must not be easy. But, I gotta think that since the headstock isn't mated next to the body, some small differences probably would be unnoticeable.

 

[Prometheus]

Yeah, that was one of my practice boards, done before the body arrived. First time veneer, first time dye, first time shellac. The color is not bad, but I have an affliction.... I can't seem to settle for "good enough". There's "right", and then there's everything else. So I'll keep trying.

I have a feeling TransTint is what I'll need. But before jumping through who-knows-what kinds of hoops to get some here, I'd like to try to confirm that's what Warmoth uses.

Anybody?

 

[Cagey]

I'm pretty sure they use a distilled version of kittens and sunshine, except on cherry bursts, which I think is just bug vomit. But, I could be wrong  :laughing7:

They're notoriously discreet about what kind of chemistries and processes they use for dyes, sealers and finishes, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a good answer on that one. You're liable to suffocate.

Actually, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The color is the thing. You can do water or solvent-based dyes and get the same results regardless of your topcoat. The dyes themselves vary as to type, but generally speaking if you get something designed for wood, you'll be fine. I've had good results with Stewmac's "Colortone" dyes, but that's a private label of some manufacturer's stuff - don't know who. Others here have had good results from Transtint dyes.

 

[Prometheus]

Well, yes, the color is the thing. I'd mentioned that I have some powder and liquid dyes now, and have solvent- and water-based ones. And I agree, the carrier is relatively immaterial, just the resultant shade.

I know that TransTint is a popular and suitable brand, and had mentioned my suspicions that it would be a good one to try. But it's hard to find someone that is able to ship it to Canada. Oh, there's one eBay vendor (I think the actual manufacturer, Homestead) who will ship a minimum size of 8oz, for $46, with a shipping charge of $42. But $88 is a bit high for just being able to test one color, and 8oz is a lot - would probably do a couple of guitars, my entire kitchen, and all my furniture.

They also sell another dye, "TransFast", a water-based analine powder. This is also sold by Rockler, who unfortunately don't carry the blue. To me, the color samples look suspiciously like the Lockwood powders. As far as I know, there are only a limited number of actual manufacturers of dyes, and various others buy in bulk, may remix, repackage and rebrand them. Anyway, Rockler has TransTint too, and may be able to ship to me.

Some have found the Stew-Mac ColorTones to be a good product, and similar to TransTint for some uses. While their "ColorTone Liquid Pigment for Lacquer" (which I don't need anyway) does not ship to Canada, their "ColorTone Liquid Stain" looks like it may. Although the name is confusing... stain is not the same as dye. Their particles are a couple of orders of magnitude different is size, and they look and act differently. But I find references to people using it like a dye. So, which is it? I'm definitely after dye, not stain.

I will continue to try to source TransTint in-country, confirm whether Rockler will ship here, and put in a call to Stew-Mac.

In the meantime, does anyone have any other brand recommendations?
And does anybody have a source for TransTint in Canada?

 

[Cagey]

I know there's a big difference between dyes and pigments, but I'm not sure about dyes and stains. If I had to guess, I'd say stains are just dyes that have already been reduced. You're right though - StewMac is a bit confusing on that issue. What they call "stain" is what I'd call "dye", and on the back of the bottle it tells you how to mix it to make stain or to tone end finishes. Pretty versatile stuff, in any event. You can mix it with just about anything.

 

[bagman67]

I have a two-ounce bottle of Transtint blue I can split if you want half.  Send me your address via private message and I'll send it up.

 

[Prometheus]

Bagman, thanks a lot !!!      :cool01:

You're a hero. PM sent.