Tops - influences on sound?

[Zakkyboy]

Hi everyone,

as a Warmoth newbie I m planning to order a neck and body.

Not just for the look I m considering to take a strat body with a maple top (maybe a quilted top). Do the tops, that Warmoth offers (on a flat body, not a carved one), influence the sound or are they more like a veneer?  In the end it depends on the thickness of the top.

The warmoth hp says:

"Laminating a thin top to a guitar body does not significantly alter the tone of the instrument."

What are your experiences?

Cheers 

 

[Cagey]

In my experience, hollow/chambered/solid makes little or no difference, and laminated or not makes little or no difference, at least amplified. Acoustically, sometimes you can hear some difference. For instance, a hollow Tele I put together recently is somewhat louder than you'd expect a Tele to be when played acoustically. Electrically, I don't think it's audible. But, it's impossible to compare these things because you can't build a solid body, play it, then hollow it out and play it again. Then, trying to compare two different bodies, one hollow and one not, doesn't work because the wood itself isn't the same.

Most of the benefit of hollow/chambered bodies is in weight and most of the benefit of laminated tops is in appearance. Neither one have much effect on tone. The neck will have more influence than the body, and that's not saying much. The pickups and the player are the controlling factors, for the most part.

 

[mgaut051]

because you can't build a solid body, play it, then hollow it out and play it again. Then, trying to compare two different bodies, one hollow and one not, doesn't work because the wood itself isn't the same.

True enough... And I 100% agree with the rest of what you say, but to be a total jerk  :icon_jokercolor: and pure devils advocate, it wouldnt be impossible to compare. (otherwise we'd have no approved medications and medicine would never move forward.)
If you could reliably and quantitatively (and even the quantitative part isn't necessary) measure tonal differences between 2 guitars (mids, growls, punch and all that) and decided what a significant difference was (i.e. Most professional musicians can discriminate or sthing like that) and then controlled for every other variable you could (same guitarist, same neck, same body wood, same patch cord, same amp, same pickup and electronics, same room), given enough guitar bodies in the hollow and the solid pile, and that none of the people involved can tell the difference between the two types (blinded, by painting the bodies for example), you could determine if there's a significant difference between the two groups by mathematical analysis. Prohibitive though, given the cost benefit ratio: much cost, little practical benefit.

I think you've written before about the absurdity of the 1000000 questions related to the effect of this or that on the tone of a guitar. What about the guitar strap? How much rubber is preventing my body from being fully grounded? Zinc or stainless screws? Slotted or Phillips?

Part of the magic for me is that you can't control for every variable. It's like finding out the sex of your baby at delivery. It's a surprise! Just means you build it the best you can, pick parts that appeal to you for whatever reason (look, sound, weight) and enjoy the PROCESS. and the bonus is that you usually get a decent instrument out of it.

And if you need a hollow tele,  just add it as a line on the "do you have enough guitars" table.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

I should have said "extremely difficult" instead of "impossible", but given what would have to be done to learn what we'd like to know, I'm not sure there's a whole lot of difference. I understand stats, and am a firm believer in that whole predictive methodology. I also know you have to use them in this sort of determination, as there's not any way to control for every variable. The best you can hope for is "close". It's much like the medical parallel you allude to - there are no two humans exactly alike, so you have to go by the numbers. There are few absolutes.

I suspect that's where much of the dogma and mythology comes from with guitars. Sometimes tolerances stack in your favor, sometimes not, and most of the time they all balance out to produce something relatively predictable. It's the magical ones that drive everyone nuts. So, they try to attribute its unique sound to some pet part and spread the news far and wide: Straps DO make a difference! <grin>

 

[line6man]

Warmoth's tops are 1/8" thick laminates. It's senseless to obsess over what 1/8" of wood is going to do when there are MANY other variables that are more important. You cannot even determine what any one piece of wood is going to sound like to begin with, when there is variation between woods of even the same species.

 

[Johnfv]

...Most of the benefit of hollow/chambered bodies is in weight and most of the benefit of laminated tops is in appearance. Neither one have much effect on tone. The neck will have more influence than the body, and that's not saying much...

I generally agree with Cagey's points above but I do find the subtle differences between guitars due to these sorts of details fascinating. To me the chambered tone seems pretty noticeable (particularly when played "acoustically"). I have 3 Warmoth Swamp Ash bodies. One solid, 2 chambered with maple tops.  If anything my maple top chambered guitars are warmer in tone than the solid one (contrary to what you would expect maple to contribute to the tone). Not at all a scientific comparison since there are a number of other differences between the guitars but the chambering seems to add a bit of that "semi hollow body" mid warmth. YMMV...

 

[greywolf]

I've built both chambered and normal bodies ,  and I feel there is a noticeble difference .  Being an engineer  I tested the sustain on both with the same pickups , and the chambered wins hands down .

It boils down to whether the top is an acoustic element, i.e is it freely resonating , if not  it's just a weight saver.  as far as the top wood goes , what Warmoth uses is so thin it's just for show . 

 

[jackthehack]

1/8" lam top on a solid or chambered body = 0 difference

1/4" top on a semi-hollow body like a Thinline or L5S body = can make a lot of difference.