Too much practice.

[The Norwegian Guy]

I was practicing a tune the other day, and nailed a hard phrase dead on every single time.
When I started recording the tune, I experienced that I just couldn't play it, even though I could play it flawlesly time after time, a couple of hours ago.

Has anybody else experienced the same thing, or is it just me?

 

[elfro89]

Plenty.  :laughing7:

Happens to me all the time man, in my case it's because I don't know it quite as well as I think I do and hesitate when I become more self conscious. If your convinced you've got it nailed, and are just being too self conscious and end up throwing yourself off, just hit record and do a practice run, don't pause the recording just keep going and going and going until your blue in the face. You might find you did an amazing take, or you might find that when you go to do the proper recording that you are absolutely confident you'll nail it.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[mayfly]

it's just you.  I always nail my recordings first take.





Seriously now, there could be a few things happening.  

1 - maybe you're nervous once the tape is rolling and you end up muffing it.
2 - when playing back something you've recorded you notice all the little flaws (tone, phrasing, string noise) that you don't hear when playing - but they were there anyway.  
3 - the idea of practice is that you train your lower nervous system to replicate what you're playing so your brain does not have to do anything except say "ok - play that lick".  I wonder if you didn't have it completely into that state when you stopped practicing.   When you came back to playing it later, your brain said "ok, do it" and your lower nervous system said something like "do what exactly? oh kinda like this?"

 

[hannaugh]

Learn it until you can play it without thinking about it, then record yourself playing it without thinking about it.  Your mind is getting in the way. 

 

[stubhead]

For a few decades now, sneaky-smart recording engineers & producers have just kept the tape rolling. "Well, let's run through a few practices here, then we'll do the real take...." Heh heh. It's even become common practice to disable the famous "red light" that lets you know "this one" is the real take. Unfortunately, it's a bit trickier to fool your own self, so I try as much as possibly to only play music I never even heard of, much less know how to play (hey, if it worked for grunge bands....)  :headbang1:


AND POST-SCRIPT - there's been all sorts of research on the benefits of SLEEP for actual memory retention, and if you've been playing a while you're sure to have found out something similar. You beat your BRAINS OUT trying to get a part nailed, LOSER, WORTHLESS aaargh,  at three a.m. you just say "I'm a useless frickup, in the morning I'm going to burn all my guitars and take up needlepoint." :sad1: And in the morning, just to confirm your own pathetic, loser-y incompetence, you pick up your guitar - and NAIL the part. Weird.

PROCEDURAL MEMORY CONSOLIDATION IN MUSICIANS: (100-page PDF dissertation)

http://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/3172/allens66501.pdf?sequence=2

Da Cliff Note's version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_memory

(You will be tested on your retention of this material at 0800 9/17/... :icon_scratch: ...aw shoot, i furgit)

 

[mayfly]

For a few decades now, sneaky-smart recording engineers & producers have just kept the tape rolling. "Well, let's run through a few practices here, then we'll do the real take...." Heh heh. It's even become common practice to disable the famous "red light" that lets you know "this one" is the real take. Unfortunately, it's a bit trickier to fool your own self, so I try as much as possibly to only play music I never even heard of, much less know how to play (hey, if it worked for grunge bands....)  :headbang1:

Hey - I've used that trick!!  The annoying thing is that then they stop or do something strange halfway through the track:  "Why did you do that?" "Well, it's just a practice take..."  "aaaaggggg" 

 

[dNA]

i 2nd most of what mayfly said. Me personally: no matter how many years i've been playing and recording, I always become self conscious and screw up when I know i'm recording. The biggest thing for me is that I become hyper-aware of details and then if one thing sounds a little bit less than perfect my brain focuses on that and it causes me to mess up even more. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think there's an easy fix for this, other than to try and train yourself to stay in a calm mindstate and not think so much when you're recording. try to just listen to what you're playing like you're hearing someone else play and try not to be conscious of what you're doing with your hands (or feet, if that applies.)

 

[elfro89]

For a few decades now, sneaky-smart recording engineers & producers have just kept the tape rolling. "Well, let's run through a few practices here, then we'll do the real take...." Heh heh.

That's what happened to me during my piano assessment. I was so horrified and shocked and so happy that I was tricked in such a way, it was like a weight off my mind, knowing that I didn't have to do it again. 

 

[jackthehack]

I never play anything exactly the same twice; what flows out the fingers is right.... It's rock'n'roll, not Bach...

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I find that stress, or nervousness, really effects my being able to play it.  I also find I hold my breath, making it worse.  What others have said about just keeping the tape rolling is what I do.  With the DAW's and cheap hard drives, I just let it go and keep playing with the metronome on.  A lot of screwball happy mistakes occur this way as well.
Patrick

 

[NLD09]

I never play anything exactly the same twice; what flows out the fingers is right.... It's rock'n'roll, not Bach...

:icon_thumright:

 

[hannaugh]

The sad thing is most of us care a lot about how we sound when we're performing and don't care as much while we're practicing.  If you switch that around, things get a lot easier because you practice harder and then loosen up to perform better.  Unfortunately, that's easier said than done.  :tard:

 

[Cagey]

AND POST-SCRIPT - there's been all sorts of research on the benefits of SLEEP for actual memory retention, and if you've been playing a while you're sure to have found out something similar. You beat your BRAINS OUT trying to get a part nailed, LOSER, WORTHLESS aaargh,  at three a.m. you just say "I'm a useless frickup, in the morning I'm going to burn all my guitars and take up needlepoint." :sad1: And in the morning, just to confirm your own pathetic, loser-y incompetence, you pick up your guitar - and NAIL the part. Weird.

PROCEDURAL MEMORY CONSOLIDATION IN MUSICIANS: (100-page PDF dissertation)

http://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/3172/allens66501.pdf?sequence=2

Da Cliff Note's version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_memory

Thank you for those links. They're very important to me.

 

[AndyG]

I don't know if this has ever been posted here, but I read once a guitar teacher saying "Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent".
He was refering to those who practice and use bad or lazy habits, because those are the hardest to un-learn.

But inkeeping with the original thread .... yeah, after thinking that I've nailed a particular phrase or solo, a few days later its fumble-fingers all over again.

 

[Cagey]

One of a few lessons I took to heart from a very good teacher I had once was "You gotta slow down to speed up". Actually, that was one of three I've never forgotten...

1. Slow down to speed up
2. Always use a metronome
3. Dare to suck

The "slow down to speed up" one taught a number of things. First and foremost, if you can't play it slow, you may as well say you can't play it because obviously you don't know it - you're just skating. If you can play it slowly (and accurately), rote practice will speed you up if necessary. But, never ever play something faster than you can play it accurately. All you'll learn is mistakes.

The metronome will keep you honest in those endeavors. Never trust your own timing. It sucks, no matter how good you think it is.

Finally, you're probably much better than you think, so dare to suck. People will only hear about 1 out of 100 mistakes, and those occasional flubs have to be really bad to be noticeable. Don't be so conceited as to think the world is revolving around you. Nuns play "Puff the Magic Dragon" and get labelled as excellent guitar players, so don't think missing a few notes in "Ah Via Musicom" is going to get you tagged as a hack.

 

[kboman]

The first time I played on payed-for time in a real, bona fide studio session I was really good. I knew the material, I was focused and even pulled off a really nice solo, completely improvised.

Now when I play and record at home, I'm not nearly as good, even when I do get some time to practice. I think the feeling of "eh, I can always do another take" can be very bad for performing. Without the element of hazard, I don't give it my all.

 

[Cagey]

Now when I play and record at home, I'm not nearly as good, even when I do get some time to practice. I think the feeling of "eh, I can always do another take" can be very bad for performing. Without the element of hazard, I don't give it my all.

I think that's true. Knowing there's no retribution for scratches, you're less careful.

Myself, when I had my recording stuff set up, I had a love/hate relationship with it. I wanted to put down something I could use as a building block, and be done with it. There's too much time involved with editing and re-takes, etc., which is a major pain in the shorts, so just be sure to do it right the first time, or damn close to it. Otherwise, it'll eat your life. In somebody else's studio, it'll eat your wallet as well.

And to expand on the earlier comment I made about slowing down to speed up? If you can play something accurately and slowly, modern technology will let you speed it up artificially. Play something accurately at 80bpm, get the software to kick it up to 135bpm, and suddenly you're Ygnwie Freakin' Malmstein <grin>

 

[bagman67]

If you can play something accurately and slowly, modern technology will let you speed it up artificially. Play something accurately at 80bpm, get the software to kick it up to 135bpm, and suddenly you're Ygnwie Freakin' Malmstein <grin>

Another argument against modern technology if I ever heard one.

 

[Jusatele]

cagey has a great post with his dare to suck post, slow is faster, metronome gives you timing and you really are very critical of yourself, that is why you get better

 

[Cagey]

If you can play something accurately and slowly, modern technology will let you speed it up artificially. Play something accurately at 80bpm, get the software to kick it up to 135bpm, and suddenly you're Ygnwie Freakin' Malmstein <grin>

Another argument against modern technology if I ever heard one.

Awww, come on! Don't be a Luddite! If it weren't for modern technology, we wouldn't even have electric guitars/amps/special defects.