Tones Tones Tones

[TJD]

arty07:

Ok so here it is. You guys all seem very intelligent and knowledgable and (mostly) have one thing in common. You are all "Strat" guys or at least Fender. I have to admit I've been a shredder (or at least tried to be) my whole life and my favorite axe has been an Ibanez RG (fill in the blank).
Until now. I'm building a Warmoth strat like I've wanted to do since I was a teen and I'm very excited....but I've never been a Strat guy..Ibanez, Gibson, BC Rich, ESP--you name it I've had it--even a Mexican Yngwie Strat (wish I still had that). The one thing I don't get is the tone thing. Can somebody please tell me what Clapton's "woman" tone is supposed to sound like cuz although I learned note for note all his Cream material I honestly think his tone regularly sucks. Pretty noodly and boring. Same with Eric Johnson (too over-effected), I'm starting to appreciate how versatile a strat is but maybe it's just a taste thing. Not that there is'nt strat sounds I like--SRV and David Gilmour stand out as having great tone IMHO. I'm not trying to be disrespectful I guess I just need to be educated on this. And one last thing..why would anybody want a strat or any other guitar without a humbucker int the bridge position?  You can all start hating me now. Or inform me ..you choose.

 

[JaySwear]

no comments on the tone, but

up until i got my warmoth strat my favorite guitar was my old RG570. after i got my warmoth i sold it. anyway, i say why not put a humbucker in the bridge? my strat is only a "strat" because of the body shape. it's got a super distortion in the bridge and a p90 in the neck. love the versatility. you could find a way to split the humbucker bridge and get some very SSS strat-like sounds from it with the middle and neck pickups. a single coil sized humbucker is also a good option here.

anyway, a strat is just a more comfortable RG in my opinion!  :icon_thumright:  with slightly less upper fret access.

 

[TJD]

I agree.. My body and neck I have just finished and my hardware is all ordered. I should post pics of the body --Satin finished Black Korina to on mahogany. HB i the brdge of course..Dimarzio AirZone , area 61 and Heavy Blues 2 in the neck pos. Apologies to the forum but I got the neck from USA custom....FLAWLESS!

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Just to clarify, Clapton's "Woman Tone" during the Cream days was not on a Strat.

 

[Dan025]

i admit the bridge pup on a strat is not my favorite sound. it seems all the overwound stuff designed to make it fatter just make it more overbearing but a softer magnet on the other hand can sound good. you can always cut highs, that is why we have tone controls but it harder to add them. the stock strat doesn't have a tone for the bridge pup but you can add a jumper on the switch for that.
it is good that you have an idea of what you want your tone to be and it seems you don't want it to be bland. keep striving for your sound. people who want a specific sound from there favorite guitar player and think it is because he has the holy grail of guitars and that they can sound that way are just dumb.

if you want good tone you just need to experiment and see what inspires you.

also i disagree about eric johnson. you may not like his sound but it is not over effected. his signal is actually fairly clean. he is just very precise about his picking and the EQing of his rig so he can make the note stand out. it is his tone and isn't easy to replicate for most players. but it is a matter of taste. also he tunes his guitar with some stretch, that is the high strings and high frets are a few cent higher than the "ideal" pitch that an electric tuner will give. it makes the harmonies sound more pure. if you want to understand that better google "piano tuning" and you'll see why piano tuner repairmen don't use electric tuners unless they are specially designed for piano tuning.

 

[richship]

Humbuckers rule for distortion, but singles just sound so great clean or slightly overdriven. After a while of fuzzy noodling, my ears start to crave that sweet chime.

Rich

 

[tfarny]

Not everyone on here is a Fender guy, though the DIY set is kind of more oriented towards bolt ons, of course. It's true that the basic strat bridge pickup by itself doesn't often have a great sound, but the awesomeness of position 4 really makes up for it, at least that's what strat players think.  Nobody is forcing you to use the bridge-only position you know, I think the great majority of strat playing gets done on the neck or the two in-between positions anyhow. Also plenty of strats have a bucker in the bridge, and lots of guys on here do that, nobody is going to hate you for it. I have been thinking about making a dual bucker strat at some point, myself.
Actually this is not a real "traditionalist" forum in general, people are doing all sorts of stuff.
You could also very easily set up a strat so that the "bridge" setting is actually the middle and bridge in series, or whatever. Strats are a good platform to customize from. Clapton is a very poor example of 'strat tone' in general and he was a pure Gibson guy through Cream as far as I know. SRV is a lot better example of a great strat tone. Sorry for the randomness of this post, I'm extra sleepy today.

 

[erogenousjones17]

+1 to what tfarny said about position four and Strat neck pickups.

I just built my first Strat (non-Warmoth), and I find myself playing on the neck pickup a lot more often than anything else, and certainly more than I do on my other guitars. I use the bridge single coil when I'm playing with my punk band because it's bright, brash, and frankly, almost abrasive, but the neck pickup is creamy and rich, and the "in-between" positions are magical. Those are the quintessential Strat tones, IMO.

I also think that tfarny hit the nail on the head about this being a "Fender-driven" forum. Bolt-on guitars are inherently more customizable than set-neck or neck-through guitars, and both Strats and Teles are really versatile platforms to start with. Plus, the Strat shape is quite possibly the most comfortable electric guitar shape. However, we do see a lot of different, i.e. non-Fender stuff on here. Hell, my only Warmoth is an LPS!

 

[Superlizard]

Coupla points:

- If your Strat bridge SC pickup sounds crappy, replace it!  There are very good Strat bridge SCs out there that won't make you want to flick the pup selector.

- Another consideration for the above Strat bridge SC pickup dilemma:  perhaps your amp is inherently too thin-toned (very common nowadays, and it all started, Marshall-wise at least, with the introduction of the split cathode in V1 position during the 70s).

- EJ's most-common distorted tone is very similar to Jeff Beck's fusion-days tone... eerily similar (Wired for example).

- Let's not forget that EJ also records/plays with humbucker-equipped guitars (335 anyone? G3 for example).

- I had an Ibenhad RG or similar in the late 80's once... I did nasty things to it, and it's prolly in some garbage dump somewhere now.

 

[erogenousjones17]

Coupla points:

- If your Strat bridge SC pickup sounds crappy, replace it!  There are very good Strat bridge SCs out there that won't make you want to flick the pup selector.

- Another consideration for the above Strat bridge SC pickup dilemma:  perhaps your amp is inherently too thin-toned (very common nowadays, and it all started, Marshall-wise at least, with the introduction of the split cathode in V1 position during the 70s).

Also true.

 

[-CB-]

Ok so here it is..... I've been a shredder my whole life
I don't get...the tone thing......Tell me what Clapton's "woman" tone is supposed to sound like cuz.....his tone regularly sucks.
Same with Eric Johnson

I've only met the man, very briefly, once, but I'm pretty sure EC would be gentleman enough to not say your tone sucked.  If you dont like it, dont listen.  If you think it sucks... why even ask about what its supposed to sound like?

The woman tone.  Probably some good examples are the Cream days.  Try the opening of "White Room" or the tone during the whole rendition of "Spoonful" or "Badge".  Moving on, the woman tone was present in his Brownie days, and Blackie days, and while more vibrant - from the change in instrument - it still had that vocal, sort of "vowel" sound.  Much of the "woman tone" is in the choice of amp, its settings, and the man on the fretboard himself.  Even when its punchy, he can get a very round upper tone thats doesn't lose sparkle, but retains its softness at the time.  Woman tone is a good name for it, but its not "one tone" its many.  Its almost a whole genre of tones.

 

[Superlizard]

Clapton Woman Tone = vintage PAF output spec humbucker with tone rolled off + vintage Marshall 50 watter.

 

[bpmorton777]

if you havent already ordered your strat body yet, Id suggest getting it routed for universal. that way you could change out pickups later if you dont like what you put in there to begin with.

secondly: good example of great strat bridge tone would be from Led Zep's "Presence" album...Page just nail's it on that. Even some great dive bombs. Id have to say that Page's tone always has blown away Clapton's in evey way, shape and form. doesnt matter weather he's playing a strat or LP.

Brian

 

[Dan025]

Clapton Woman Tone = vintage PAF output spec humbucker with tone rolled off + vintage Marshall 50 watter.

+ spirally cable. really that is an important part.

 

[Superlizard]

Clapton Woman Tone = vintage PAF output spec humbucker with tone rolled off + vintage Marshall 50 watter.

+ spirally cable. really that is an important part.

Good point and very true!  :icon_thumright:

 

[TJD]

:icon_scratch:To CB..I'm sure EC is very nice.I'm not ripping on him and I grew up playing alot of Cream. So don't get all offended cuz I think his tone is way  over-rated..let's put it that way. I knew he played SG's and other guitars in Cream. I thought the woman tone came later when he started playing mostly Blackie etc. But if you don't think EJ uses alot of effects to get that sound you're crazy. By the way, I never met EJ but I did sit next to Adam West (original Batman) on a plane once. My only brush with greatness.

 

[-CB-]

Most of what we hear - post Cream from EC is actually Brownie.  Blackie didn't come till quite a bit later.

The point was - there is no "one" woman tone.  And he doesn't always use it.  And he uses it in different ways.   In fact, sometimes he contrasts against it (on purpose I think).  He's achieved it with LP, SG, ES-335, several Strats, and  a Tele thrown in there for good measure (the Yardbirds days)

If you listen to the solo on "All your Love" (Beano) you can get a hint of that woman tone, but its almost non exitsant in "Why does love have to be sad" (Layla).

You really have to dig in to a wide variety of EC's stuff... and dig into each recorded performance as well.  The woman tone can be soft or brilliant, never overly glassy, always with a round, vowel like upper mid.

If you have a traditionally wired LP or SG, try this - Switch to both pickups, set the neck pickup to full volume and no treble cut.  Now take the neck pickup and crank down the tone control so it rolls off considerable high end.  Then, back down on the volume control on the bridge pickup a bit to lessen the effect.  And there's that vowel like tone.  Play and mix / match the volume cut and tone control on the neck pickup to see the range you can get from that sort of thing.  A little adjustment goes a long way.

 

[Dan025]

i think that EJ reference was pointed at me. i have seen him get the aproximate sounds of a piano, violin, and other instruments out of a strat with no pedals at all. i know he uses effects but a lot of what you here is strait from his fingers. on his latest albums he did a lot of his own mixes using protools and may sound over produced but i still disagree with the term over effected.