This is kinda obscene... (totally SFW, though)

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Er.... I don't think there's anything definitive to be said on such a broad topic as "the quality of products made in China" - obviously, there's tons of stuff manufactured there that works great, along with crap.

In fact, the quality of some of these instruments isn't always poor by any means.  As mentioned, I played an excellent bass that was assembled very cheaply in Indonesia.

My point was about the markup that comes with these products & the ethical fog about buying things that are artificially deflated in price due to 3rd world labor costs.

I'm sure we all have lots of great quality stuff (everything Apple makes, for example) that was made in china.  Doesn't make me feel any better about their labor practices or human rights record.

All good reasons why you should just buy parts from Warmoth and put together your own guitar/bass.

+ 1.  It's going to take me a while to get the cash together for an all USA made instrument, but I consider the cost worth it.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

One of my American made Warmoths is made of mahogany, ebony, and wenge.  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[m4rk0]

I like turtles

 

[AutoBat]

I find the mindset of, "If it isn't American made, it must be crap" hilarious.  Reminds me of a brilliant marketing ploy the Japanese used back in the day whereby they stamped products as "MADE IN USA" for amything made in the city of Usa.  Americans bought the shite out of it not realising it was Japanese.

False
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/usa.asp

 

[Ace Flibble]

Smart, experienced Americans are building American guitars, not 10 year olds working in sweat shops.  Would you trust the idiot at Walmart to put your bicycle together?  No, you probably wouldn't.  It's the same thing.

Actually, your average Chinese or Korean factory worker has about as much experience as your average American factory worker. You also severely overestimate how hands-on guitar manufacture is these days. Even the various Custom Shops use CNC and PLEK machines for everything now.

And hell, the Fender factories are mostly operated by Mexican nationals who have been ''promoted'' from the Mexican factories to work on a visa. There was a big thread on it over at U-G just a couple of months back after someone went on tour around the main Fender factory in America and took photos. Between the Mexican 'American' workers, Chinese 'American' electronics, Korean 'American' hardware and woods sourced from gods-knows-where, there's really not much that is actually American about an American Fender. I suppose you could put a sticker of an eagle on the pickguard or something, I dunno.

Chinese products are crap.  I don't own them if I don't need to.  That goes for everything from my guitars and gear to my clothes.  You can support the Chinese economy by spending your money on garbage, but I'm not.  It has nothing to do with a political statement, it's a matter of preference.  I prefer to buy something ONCE, not five times.

The computer or phone your are typing that from is full of Chinese parts. Your car has Chinese parts in it. All of your guitars, regardless of what country is stamped next to the serial number, have Chinese parts in it.

If you got to a café and have a coffee, chances are the mug was made in China. If not China than Taiwan, Korea, Singapore or Indonesia or Vietnam. All of which do a lot of business with China anyway.

You can't escape it. This is why they've become the biggest player in the world economy. Well, that, and because North America and west Europe thought living on credit was a smart plan. I don't like it, but that's how it is and it's absolutely crazy to try to avoid it because there is simply no way to do so. Look around whatever room you're in right now. I guarantee I could point to ten things in there that are a product or by-product of Chinese manufacture.

 

[tfarny]

Just realized that my newest guitar is MIC. It's an all-solid mahogany Guild GAD-M25, almost parlor-sized acoustic. Very traditional construction and look. It's a fantastic country blues guitar. Right now I've got a nut riser on it and I'm treating it like a dobro. It really stood out from the competition at the music store, just a fantastic tone. It didn't occur to me until now that it was a MIC, I hadn't even thought about it. There just isn't anything MIA that can compete with it until you double the price.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Smart, experienced Americans are building American guitars, not 10 year olds working in sweat shops.  Would you trust the idiot at Walmart to put your bicycle together?  No, you probably wouldn't.  It's the same thing.

Actually, your average Chinese or Korean factory worker has about as much experience as your average American factory worker. You also severely overestimate how hands-on guitar manufacture is these days. Even the various Custom Shops use CNC and PLEK machines for everything now.

And hell, the Fender factories are mostly operated by Mexican nationals who have been ''promoted'' from the Mexican factories to work on a visa. There was a big thread on it over at U-G just a couple of months back after someone went on tour around the main Fender factory in America and took photos. Between the Mexican 'American' workers, Chinese 'American' electronics, Korean 'American' hardware and woods sourced from gods-knows-where, there's really not much that is actually American about an American Fender. I suppose you could put a sticker of an eagle on the pickguard or something, I dunno.

Chinese products are crap.  I don't own them if I don't need to.  That goes for everything from my guitars and gear to my clothes.  You can support the Chinese economy by spending your money on garbage, but I'm not.  It has nothing to do with a political statement, it's a matter of preference.  I prefer to buy something ONCE, not five times.

The computer or phone your are typing that from is full of Chinese parts. Your car has Chinese parts in it. All of your guitars, regardless of what country is stamped next to the serial number, have Chinese parts in it.

If you got to a café and have a coffee, chances are the mug was made in China. If not China than Taiwan, Korea, Singapore or Indonesia or Vietnam. All of which do a lot of business with China anyway.

You can't escape it. This is why they've become the biggest player in the world economy. Well, that, and because North America and west Europe thought living on credit was a smart plan. I don't like it, but that's how it is and it's absolutely crazy to try to avoid it because there is simply no way to do so. Look around whatever room you're in right now. I guarantee I could point to ten things in there that are a product or by-product of Chinese manufacture.

And how would you know what kind of experience Koreans have with building guitars?  I'd like to see proof of your claim, because every Korean guitar I've ever played doesn't play ANYWHERE near as good as an American guitar.  Secondly, I'm not going to debate it.  You can try to justify your Chinese purchases to me all you'd like, but I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.  I'll spend a little more and actually get something decent for my money.

I'm sure the computer I'm typing from IS made from Chinese parts, and considering it's an Apple, it's probably made there, too, as with my iPhone and every other "smart" phone.  Considering computers are made in China, it's no secret why they only work for the better part of two years before crapping out.

BTW, as far as "U-G," that forum carries about as much credibility as a politician.

Now, just to clarify, I have nothing against you, and I'm not even mad at you, but when it comes to buying American over a product of some crappy country like China or Korea, who are notorious for belching out less than stellar products, there's no way in Hell you're going to convince me to spend my money on their sub-par products.

 

[AprioriMark]

You know, I'm personally offended by the tone in this thread.  Disagree all you want, but please back off with the hyperbolic vitriol. 

I'm happy to speak to the quality of specific Asian manufacturers in another thread, but this derail is ridiculous and offensive. 

-Mark

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

You know, I'm personally offended by the tone in this thread.  Disagree all you want, but please back off with the hyperbolic vitriol. 

I'm happy to speak to the quality of specific Asian manufacturers in another thread, but this derail is ridiculous and offensive. 

-Mark

Sorry your feelings are hurt.  I made a comment about how I think Chinese and Korean guitars are cheap, low quality garbage and if someone didn't like them, then don't buy them.  All to soon afterward, people took the ball and ran with it.

BTW, I stick to my conviction that Chinese and Korean guitars are low quality garbage, whether your feelings are hurt or not.  I own 10 guitars.  Five of those 10 guitars are either Chinese, Korean, or Indonesian, while one is Japanese.  Four of them are American.  The American guitars are FAR superior to the others.  The foreign ones don't even come close.  That right there qualifies me to make generalizations about Chinese and Korean guitars.

Do you really think my Epiphone Shadow Six (Made in Korea) comes close to that of my Taylor 414ce?  NOT EVEN CLOSE.  The ONLY things they have in common are pickups (one which NEVER worked right in the Epiphone), a few wires, six strings, and shape.  I also own two Jacksons; one USA model and one Indonesian model.  Don't even think for a second that the Indonesian model hits anywhere near the quality and craftsmanship of my USA model.  While the Indonesian model is a nice guitar (for $400...), it's nowhere close to the USA model.

FWIW, save for my cheap bass, the other five foreigners just sit in a corner and collect dust.  The only times they come out to play are when I'm either traveling or jamming at a buddy's house.  You know, it's kinda like if you're gonna go to Walmart, you drive the Kia, not the Lamborghini.  It doesn't really matter what happens to the Kia. 

Enjoy your Chinese and Korean "value" models, I'll stick to the good stuff.  :cool01:

 

[Cagey]

I think where you may be getting some pushback from is the over-generalization or speaking in absolutes. No matter how you look at it, it's inaccurate to say all Chinese or Korean guitars are junk or that all American ones are better. I know for fact that Agile makes better Les Pauls than Gibson does, but not all of Agile's Les Pauls are the same, just as not all Gibson's Les Pauls are the same. There are variations in the model lines to provide for different levels of finish, trim and cost. But if you think for one second that a Gibson Les Paul Custom can hold a candle to a an Agile AL3100, it can only be because you've never seen an example of either one. Same with a Les Paul Studio vs. an Agile AL2000; no contest. Then, when you consider the Gibsons cost an order of magnitude more money, all you can do is laugh at the absurdity.

Not that the Gibsons are necessarily bad guitars - they have their place in history - but they're not the be-all end-all they used to be and are often still touted as. Americans also make a wide variety of other instruments that are stellar examples of the art from like likes of Paul Reed Smith, Suhr, Collins, Taylor, etc. So, it's true that you can get very fine American guitars. But, we don't have a lock on the market. There are others around the world who do equally good or better jobs. To discount them as unacceptable simply because they're not made in America is to insult their talent as well as deny yourself the opportunity to own some fine pieces.

Of course, everybody makes some junk. That's easy, and there's a large market for it. But, don't paint an entire country or industry in broad strokes over some lesser examples you may have bought into.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I think where you may be getting some pushback from is the over-generalization or speaking in absolutes. No matter how you look at it, it's inaccurate to say all Chinese or Korean guitars are junk or that all American ones are better. I know for fact that Agile makes better Les Pauls than Gibson does, but not all of Agile's Les Pauls are the same, just as not all Gibson's Les Pauls are the same. There are variations in the model lines to provide for different levels of finish, trim and cost. But if you think for one second that a Gibson Les Paul Custom can hold a candle to a an Agile AL3100, it can only be because you've never seen an example of either one. Same with a Les Paul Studio vs. an Agile AL2000; no contest. Then, when you consider the Gibsons cost an order of magnitude more money, all you can do is laugh at the absurdity.

Not that the Gibsons are necessarily bad guitars - they have their place in history - but they're not the be-all end-all they used to be and are often still touted as. Americans also make a wide variety of other instruments that are stellar examples of the art from like likes of Paul Reed Smith, Suhr, Collins, Taylor, etc. So, it's true that you can get very fine American guitars. But, we don't have a lock on the market. There are others around the world who do equally good or better jobs. To discount them as unacceptable simply because they're not made in America is to insult their talent as well as deny yourself the opportunity to own some fine pieces.

Of course, everybody makes some junk. That's easy, and there's a large market for it. But, don't paint an entire country or industry in broad strokes over some lesser examples you may have bought into.

Okay, ya got me, Cagemeister.  :tard:  You are right, but pretty much ANYTHING is better than a sloppily crafted Gibson.  Hell, they don't even use wooden fretboards on some of their most expensive LPs, instead using a pulp/resin mixture called "Richlite," which is ANYTHING BUT "rich!"

Admittedly, I would take a Chinese "First Act" over ANY Gibson, even if I were only going to throw it into the fireplace.

 

[Wyliee]

OK, folks.  We're wrapping up this thread.  We've got a lot of international forum members and this thread has taken a pretty sour direction.

Healthy discussions are just fine.... Let's keep it classy.