Torment Leaves Scars
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Marko said:
Ouch... :help: :icon_scratch:
The unfair life of guitarists
- Thread starter SustainerPlayer
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Ouch... :help: :icon_scratch:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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Mayfly by VOX said:Hey - I use a capo. And I play the sucker behind my head!
You can get some interesting voicings when you have access to the open strings the way you like it. I also do this for dropped-D tuning on a 12 string
I know. You also know how to play in more than key. I don't mind playing along with one, for instance I play in A guitar player capo 2 play in G. You're right too about voicings especially with 2 guitars with one not capo. My post had more to do with the acoustic douche being a chick magnet for his musicality armed with only a capo and G major chord movements. When I use one, I know the key regardless what chord I'm doing with a capo. Acoustic douche capo guys don't. It is crutch of ignorance for many.
anorakDan
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One of my roomies is another guitar player. He's totally infatuated with Buckethead. He studies the YouTube clips and tries to copy the fingering. He's getting pretty good, but if I grab my guitar, sit down with him and say, play me a C chord, he can't do it! A simple, open C chord.
He's learning the fingering, but has no idea how to apply it to anything. He can't even tune any of his 3 guitars without an electronic tuner.
He says he "loves the blues," but has no idea what I, IV, V means or what a turnaround is. Hell, I don't think he even knows how many bars of music is standard for the blues. (What, like 9, or 14 or something?)
I guess the point I'm getting to is, players like Satriani, and Malmsteen and the rest of the electric guitar masturbators, while technically brilliant, are doing nothing to inspire lesser guitarists to learn to be better musicians, just faster wankers.
Consider this scenario: Guitar player 1 plays electric guitar. Guitar player 2 plays an acoustic. They are both of relatively equal skill level. Gifted amateurs, let's say. Guitar player 1 has a small interested audience, so he plugs in and starts blistering his fingers with lightning-quick runs, grabs the whammy bar and wobbles it around, and basically shows off his chops. The audience's eyes glaze over and they can't wait to applaud the finish. Because he's done.
Guitar player 2 grabs his Martin or whatever, strums a few chords, then sings a song for his small audience, accompanying himself on guitar. His audience loves it! Why? Because he played them a song. Meanwhile, our electric player is scratching his head, wondering why nobody is as impressed with his technique as he is. He wanders off grumbling how people don't appreciate his regurgitated Malmsteen, or Vai or EVH soloing.
The moral of the story is; No one is as impressed with your chops as you are. Long, masturbatory guitar solos are BORING. Learn music, not just guitar. Learn what people like to hear, unless you want to spend the rest of your life in your bedroom, playing alone.
One final note. As an electric guitar player I have noticed that girls generally aren't impressed with your playing, they are impressed that you play, and while they don't necessarily show that while you are playing, they show their appreciation later, away from the stage in manners other than applause and whistles.
He's learning the fingering, but has no idea how to apply it to anything. He can't even tune any of his 3 guitars without an electronic tuner.
He says he "loves the blues," but has no idea what I, IV, V means or what a turnaround is. Hell, I don't think he even knows how many bars of music is standard for the blues. (What, like 9, or 14 or something?)
I guess the point I'm getting to is, players like Satriani, and Malmsteen and the rest of the electric guitar masturbators, while technically brilliant, are doing nothing to inspire lesser guitarists to learn to be better musicians, just faster wankers.
Consider this scenario: Guitar player 1 plays electric guitar. Guitar player 2 plays an acoustic. They are both of relatively equal skill level. Gifted amateurs, let's say. Guitar player 1 has a small interested audience, so he plugs in and starts blistering his fingers with lightning-quick runs, grabs the whammy bar and wobbles it around, and basically shows off his chops. The audience's eyes glaze over and they can't wait to applaud the finish. Because he's done.
Guitar player 2 grabs his Martin or whatever, strums a few chords, then sings a song for his small audience, accompanying himself on guitar. His audience loves it! Why? Because he played them a song. Meanwhile, our electric player is scratching his head, wondering why nobody is as impressed with his technique as he is. He wanders off grumbling how people don't appreciate his regurgitated Malmsteen, or Vai or EVH soloing.
The moral of the story is; No one is as impressed with your chops as you are. Long, masturbatory guitar solos are BORING. Learn music, not just guitar. Learn what people like to hear, unless you want to spend the rest of your life in your bedroom, playing alone.
One final note. As an electric guitar player I have noticed that girls generally aren't impressed with your playing, they are impressed that you play, and while they don't necessarily show that while you are playing, they show their appreciation later, away from the stage in manners other than applause and whistles.
Torment Leaves Scars
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anorakDan said:
It just goes to show it's easy to play a guitar, but it's not easy to play a guitar.
One year ago I wouldn't have had any idea what the notes in a C chord were, but now I do. I wouldn't have known what an inversion, quality, or a "I, IV, V" were, either. While I'm still not an expert on it by any means, I am starting to get it. It's gotten to the point for me that I know some music theory, but I just have a difficult time applying it to the fretboard.
Whoa. Blaming Joe Satriani for the fact that your roommate sucks is like blaming Kobe Bryant for the fact that you can't play basketball in the NBA. Who wrote the rule is it written that it's his function to "inspire lesser guitarists to learn to be better musicians?" And if they hear something there - and you can't - bear in mind that Satriani can read and write out orchestral scores, he certainly has the talents needed to support himself with session work - but he chooses to do otherwise. Now, the reasons that a particular musician's playing matches up with a particular listener's criteria for personal enjoyment is a subject that takes more time than I'm going to spend (very early listening & having parents either working or listening to music is key though), and Satriani doesn't happen to match up with the emotional bandwidth or range that would lead me to study him with the intensity that some do - we are allowed to have different tastes without needed to insult what we don't prefer. But to attempt to classify Satriani as a non-musician (and apparently you are a "musician" or some sort?) because your roommate sucks is insane.
When you "learn music" what are you learning? Strumming a few chords and singing a song that impresses people is great! But the world is just as full of whinging, strumming annoyingly self-absorbed acoustic "sensitives" as it is of crappy rockers. Have you ever trained yourself to listen to fast music? It's not a "natural" thing, you know - it takes both effort and practice to learn, but it opens wide the doors to enjoyment of things that will otherwise blow right by. Do you even know the language of music? I don't necessarily mean sight-reading (truly a rare skill, most musicians just know enough to get by), but can you at least chart a song, know your diatonic I ii iii IV V vi vii/dim keys and be able to communicate at an intelligible level with other musicians?
Surely you can see that if every single long guitar solo is boring to you - if the only thing you can hear appears to be "masturbatory" to YOU, yet others find it interesting, even fascinating and worthy of study - it's specifically because you don't yet know how to organize what you're hearing. Themes, counter-themes, sectional arrangements of themes (AABACD for example and no those aren't keys) - did you know that there are some people who will pick up a book written in French and berate it for being stupid, or dismiss a Chinese movie as "BORING"?
Do you like Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto in D, Op. 35? It is universally known as one of the best violin concertos ever, there's not a "real" classical music fan or player who won't have it in their top 5. When you listen to it, you may have some trouble outlining the structure used to organize the themes, because what Tchaikovsky did in that regards was new, untested and many people even found it "wrong" until they learned that - he had simply left them behind. Though they certainly didn't call it masturbatory or BORING.
The "moral of the story" is that, musical ignorance is wonderful! - it's so easy to overcome & there is nothing more worthy of a lifetime spent. But it does take the desire to learn something, and the acknowledgement that there is more to know. And even though he's not one of "my" people, each and every electric guitarist could learn worlds of music from Joe Satriani, at least until they find somebody who's emotional bandwidth synchs up better with their own.
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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I'm shocked and impressed. I've never seen Stubby reply directly to a person or post.
Not that I particularly want to get involved in this discussion, but maybe I can offer a different perspective.
In grade school I started playing the Euphonium (a conical brass instrument, similar to a tuba but baritone pitched.) I was told that I was a prodigy, that I would go on to make tons of money, and win many awards (I did win a few) and blah blah blah. This was all fine and dandy, but I absolutely hated it. It started out fun. I was playing music for the sake of music. But the more advanced I got at the instrument, the more that technique was an issue. Not that there was anthing wrong with my technique, but as far as most directors were concerned the notes on the page were what was most important, and not the particular emotion that was to be expressed. I knew all my notes, scales, modes, key signatures, clefs, etc. But I honestly didn't feel that they were doing me any good if I wasn't able to express myself musically. I felt that the reason that most composers composed was to express themselves through music, and that it was up to us as musicians to convey that. This is probably the reason that many in this discussion find Satriani fascinating, as he composes to convey a message, whereas many find Malmsteem completely unenjoyable, as he distorts old classical songs into crazy shred-tastic "songs."
I've since quit the Euphonium and I now focus entirely on the guitar. I listened to people like Jimi Hendrix, SRV, Buddy Guy, Los Lonely Boys, etc. People who couldn't read a lick of music, and I envied them. So when I started playing I intentionally did it all by ear, just like they had. Naturally, the classically trained part of me couldn't help but remember the names of all the notes on the fingerboard and the chords that my fingers shaped, but I no longer worried about the notes on the page. Instead I worried about what made me feel good, and what I thought might make others feel good. Music, to me, isn't about what the notes say, as many would have you believe, but about what those notes mean.
The difficulty that I have with the above argument is that I can comprehend long guitar solos, and orchestral pieces, and violin concertos (the one you provided was brilliant) but that doesn't mean that I necessarily find any meaning in them if the artists didn't try to convey a message. To me learning/playing music isn't about sight reading skill or how fast you can play your scales (over music or otherwise.) It's about emotion. The moral of this story is that musical, knowledge based ignorance truly IS blissful. Without it I'd just be another technique junky like I used to be, wishing I could find a real way to express myself.
Btw.There are quite a few songs of all of the artists mentioned on this page that I find musically enjoyable. (Malmsteem excluded.) However, the only one that I've met so far that truly understands the middle ground between technique and feel is Andy Timmons. I could listen his newer stuff all day.
In grade school I started playing the Euphonium (a conical brass instrument, similar to a tuba but baritone pitched.) I was told that I was a prodigy, that I would go on to make tons of money, and win many awards (I did win a few) and blah blah blah. This was all fine and dandy, but I absolutely hated it. It started out fun. I was playing music for the sake of music. But the more advanced I got at the instrument, the more that technique was an issue. Not that there was anthing wrong with my technique, but as far as most directors were concerned the notes on the page were what was most important, and not the particular emotion that was to be expressed. I knew all my notes, scales, modes, key signatures, clefs, etc. But I honestly didn't feel that they were doing me any good if I wasn't able to express myself musically. I felt that the reason that most composers composed was to express themselves through music, and that it was up to us as musicians to convey that. This is probably the reason that many in this discussion find Satriani fascinating, as he composes to convey a message, whereas many find Malmsteem completely unenjoyable, as he distorts old classical songs into crazy shred-tastic "songs."
I've since quit the Euphonium and I now focus entirely on the guitar. I listened to people like Jimi Hendrix, SRV, Buddy Guy, Los Lonely Boys, etc. People who couldn't read a lick of music, and I envied them. So when I started playing I intentionally did it all by ear, just like they had. Naturally, the classically trained part of me couldn't help but remember the names of all the notes on the fingerboard and the chords that my fingers shaped, but I no longer worried about the notes on the page. Instead I worried about what made me feel good, and what I thought might make others feel good. Music, to me, isn't about what the notes say, as many would have you believe, but about what those notes mean.
The difficulty that I have with the above argument is that I can comprehend long guitar solos, and orchestral pieces, and violin concertos (the one you provided was brilliant) but that doesn't mean that I necessarily find any meaning in them if the artists didn't try to convey a message. To me learning/playing music isn't about sight reading skill or how fast you can play your scales (over music or otherwise.) It's about emotion. The moral of this story is that musical, knowledge based ignorance truly IS blissful. Without it I'd just be another technique junky like I used to be, wishing I could find a real way to express myself.
Btw.There are quite a few songs of all of the artists mentioned on this page that I find musically enjoyable. (Malmsteem excluded.) However, the only one that I've met so far that truly understands the middle ground between technique and feel is Andy Timmons. I could listen his newer stuff all day.
AggieTreed
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What about Bassists? We get even less respect!
This guy right here does mix the emotion and technique into a true blend! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9lQXwv5Ejo
This guy right here does mix the emotion and technique into a true blend! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9lQXwv5Ejo
anorakDan, I am a selfish B*st*rd when it comes to song writing, I don't care about my listeners when I write stuff, like I would never say, "nah im not putting that there cause people won't like it," the only thing on my mind is the song and whether it works for me and pushes my buttons. But you seem to have things backwards, most of the showoff's aren't looking to impress themselves, they are looking to impress the audience, and that is where they fail. If singer songwriters with their martins get you off, great man, but I see plenty of dudes with a martin kicking around and they don't have an army of followers, I think the reason is because they assume to know what the audience wants instead of reading the current mood, but the exact the reason why they are not doing well is something we can only speculate (maybe it was because he didn't show enough dong to the ladies.)
But skilled shredder or laid back martin guy don't matter none when it comes to being successful, either can work. All the great guitar players I personally know and are successful have been one thing. Listen-able. The vibe I got from audiences is they appreciate what works. What works changes with the mood and the audience. I've been in a situation where the mood did not call for shreddathons but some really big open chords and a smooth chorus, half hour later it was big solo's the crowd wanted to see some real action and it was a fantastic gig - cause that's what the mood demanded. You can't expect to fill 2 hours work of chilled out acoustic guy cause the mood goes sour, the problem is the inability and no flexibility to move with the mood of the gig. Being able to read this mood can take some experience, I've done gigs where the solos just didn't work and I've done gigs where the accoustic just didnt work either. It was only once I got the experience that you can feel the vibe and really enjoy the performance properly, but it all starts with that selfish drive of doing what works for you.
But skilled shredder or laid back martin guy don't matter none when it comes to being successful, either can work. All the great guitar players I personally know and are successful have been one thing. Listen-able. The vibe I got from audiences is they appreciate what works. What works changes with the mood and the audience. I've been in a situation where the mood did not call for shreddathons but some really big open chords and a smooth chorus, half hour later it was big solo's the crowd wanted to see some real action and it was a fantastic gig - cause that's what the mood demanded. You can't expect to fill 2 hours work of chilled out acoustic guy cause the mood goes sour, the problem is the inability and no flexibility to move with the mood of the gig. Being able to read this mood can take some experience, I've done gigs where the solos just didn't work and I've done gigs where the accoustic just didnt work either. It was only once I got the experience that you can feel the vibe and really enjoy the performance properly, but it all starts with that selfish drive of doing what works for you.
