The unfair life of guitarists

[bagman67]

Yeah, you gotta eat before you can play.


A propos of the "practice" comment:


I read in interview of Stanley Clarke a loooooong time back, and he proposed that the only useful practice regime consists in dedicating time every day to working on stuff you don't know already how to do, before you get to the part where you play the stuff you already know well enough to like playing.  Most of us (yours truly included) plug in, turn up - and do the same jive-ass licks we always do, and while that's pretty enjoyable on some level, it doesn't grow us as instrumentalists.  And the truth is this approach can apply to punk rockers and shred maniacs alike.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Yeah, you gotta eat before you can play.


A propos of the "practice" comment:


I read in interview of Stanley Clarke a loooooong time back, and he proposed that the only useful practice regime consists in dedicating time every day to working on stuff you don't know already how to do, before you get to the part where you play the stuff you already know well enough to like playing.  Most of us (yours truly included) plug in, turn up - and do the same jive-ass licks we always do, and while that's pretty enjoyable on some level, it doesn't grow us as instrumentalists.  And the truth is this approach can apply to punk rockers and shred maniacs alike.

I do some "practicing," but nowhere near as much as I should.  Basically, I plug in, do some warm-up exercises, run through some scales, and just...play.  When I do actually practice, if I wind up "discovering" something, my mind totally wanders to whatever it was that I just "discovered."  I do a lot of "exploring" more than learning, which is a very poor habit.

 

[Cagey]

I read in interview of Stanley Clarke a loooooong time back, and he proposed that the only useful practice regime consists in dedicating time every day to working on stuff you don't know already how to do, before you get to the part where you play the stuff you already know well enough to like playing.  Most of us (yours truly included) plug in, turn up - and do the same jive-ass licks we always do, and while that's pretty enjoyable on some level, it doesn't grow us as instrumentalists.  And the truth is this approach can apply to punk rockers and shred maniacs alike.

That makes sense. If you play what you know, you're not learning anything. You're just developing muscle memory. With new theories, techniques, material, etc. you're adding to what you know, which grows and matures you as a player.

But, there's a lot to be said for playing what you know. You know it because you like it and if you can't play what you like, then why bother playing at all? Unless, of course, it's a job.

Speaking of playing as a job, imagine what it must be like to be Robin Trower, Jimi Page or Eric Clapton, who've played the same songs for decades. That's gotta suck. I remember the last band I played in, we had to run through the sets from time to time to be sure we could, and it was brutal. "Gimme Three Steps" isn't an awful tune the first time you hear it, but by the 100th, you wanna give somebody three 9mm bullets in the center chest. How must Mr. Trower feel after playing "Day of the Eagle" for 5,000th time?

 

[m4rk0]

People don't call Jimi Hendrix a one-trick pony because he was revolutionary.  Jimi's playing is what shaped rock guitar into what it is today.  His influence is stamped all over Rock, Blues, Metal, you name it....But what about Chuck Berry?  :icon_scratch:  He's never mentioned in any conversation revolving around Rock N' Roll.  ???

Eric Clapton?  He's done numerous projects.  While he incorporates different styles into his music, and while it's different, he still successfully leaves his distinctive stamp on it.  With Yngwie, everybody knows it's Yngwie, but there's no differentiation to what he's done and what he is doing.  His clear focus is on playing fast with a classical influence to it, and he's successful at what he does.  Personally, I'd like to see him do something other than what he's already done.  How many times do you wanna listen to the same record with different titles?

Those were random examples, but at the same time, I think that Yngwie has influenced many modern day shredders..
while I respect those guitarist, their work sounds all the same to me too.. once again, we hear things differently.
and again, I don't feel that strongly about yngwie, but I hate the cliche used against him all the time.

 

[stubhead]

There are these hidden wonders all over the place. Mayfly would know this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRCSM3PTCt8

Scotty Anderson lives in Cleveland, he likes his house and his wife and waking up in his own bed at night. He's a monster in the country/jazz/chicken pickin' tradition - years back somebody organized a Danny Gatton benefit for college money for his daughter, and they had Brent Mason, Albert Lee, the pride of Nashville cats - Scotty Anderson was the only one who actually could play the parts right. But any of these guys make a mockery of the "world's fastest" poll in Guitar World....

I just finished reading Brad Paisley's short memoir "Diary of a Picker" (love that inter-library loan!) and he had an old guitar teacher named Hank Godard who just plain didn't want to go to Nashville after the war and live in his car for a year trying out at open mikes all over town, but according to Paisley Godard could play anything, and he would know. The only connection between the drive to be a star and to master an instrument lies in persistence, but there are a lot of "stars" who really aren't very good, rounded musicians. And, the system is such that if you have one hit, the pressure is on to repeat it, over and over. It drove people like Hendrix and Garcia crazy (somewhat literally, in both cases). They were tired of the "hits" but the people were paying money to hear them, and in Hendrix's case the record company and his manager got REALLY NASTY about pumping out more of the same - going behind his back and canceling  a meeting with Miles Davis etc. One of the reason Scotty Anderson hides in Cleveland is he doesn't want to just play fast as hell all the time, but the magazines, YouTube and US do a good job of making it an athletic contest... nuts. Of the two best guitarists I've ever known well, one is teaching at Berklee and one owns and runs a studio in Minneapolis. Riding around in an old Buick with a U-Haul full of instruments, having smelly fart contests with your bandmates for years with no actual guarantee of "success" - there are other choices. Get out to a local jam session with some 50-to-60-year-old guys and try and burn them down with your hot licks - might learn something, there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygLOWGJ2bcQ&feature=related

 

[Cagey]

Very insightful. Nice clip of Mr. Kasper, too. Guys like that make me want to either shit or get off the pot. That is, get serious or sell all my instruments and gear and take up knitting or something.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

People don't call Jimi Hendrix a one-trick pony because he was revolutionary.  Jimi's playing is what shaped rock guitar into what it is today.  His influence is stamped all over Rock, Blues, Metal, you name it....But what about Chuck Berry?  :icon_scratch:  He's never mentioned in any conversation revolving around Rock N' Roll.  ???

Eric Clapton?  He's done numerous projects.  While he incorporates different styles into his music, and while it's different, he still successfully leaves his distinctive stamp on it.  With Yngwie, everybody knows it's Yngwie, but there's no differentiation to what he's done and what he is doing.  His clear focus is on playing fast with a classical influence to it, and he's successful at what he does.  Personally, I'd like to see him do something other than what he's already done.  How many times do you wanna listen to the same record with different titles?

Those were random examples, but at the same time, I think that Yngwie has influenced many modern day shredders..
while I respect those guitarist, their work sounds all the same to me too.. once again, we hear things differently.
and again, I don't feel that strongly about yngwie, but I hate the cliche used against him all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Yngwie, I even have his "Eclipse" record, which I enjoy, and then there are some of his other songs I like, but the basic sound of them doesn't differ much.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

I've been around a while and seen a lot of the great guitarist from many different genre - Yngwie's impressed me a time or 2, I've seen Satch & Vai, and I saw Steve Morse live and personal in a little club in Charleston SC and he was simply amazing (one of the best shows I've seen), but their commercial recordings just don't grab me for some reason.  :dontknow:
I'd much rather hear someone playing an old beat up, out of tune, piece of crap with passion and feeling like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsMpHHSLSlc than to listen to some of the sterile, tech-rock I hear on these guys CDs. No denying they have great talent and I might even go see one of them in concert on the right night!  :confused4:
But, the single best guitar player I ever heard was an unknown guy from Florida I met in the 80's that didn't want to go thru all the trouble of being a "Pro" and made enough money as a Lawyer that he could play (sit in with local club bands) anytime he wanted to! But, there's probably less than 20 people that'll ever knew how good he really was, and I mean amazing!  :toothy12:
I really liked that Timmon's cut, he reminded me a lot of Jimi, but he makes it his own!! :icon_thumright:

 

[DocNrock]

Its been years since I've been to a concert thanks to my job.  But back in the day, I went to a few.  I saw Satriani live and when I got home I didn't know whether to be inspired or to throw my guitars out the window!  Nevertheless, I think he's a very soulful as well as technical player and I appreciate his music (not so much when he sings, however, lol). 

Regarding Vai, one only has to listen to "For the Love of God," to hear some soulful shredding. 

Yngvie doesn't do much for me.  I appreciate his technical prowess, but I've never been a fan of neo-classical, so that's my bad for not "feeling it."

I have to say that my favorite guitarists are Dave Murray and Adrian Smith.  When I was washing my truck back in '83, I had the radio on and "The Trooper" played.  It was the first time I had heard Iron Maiden and I just stopped washing and listened.  That was *the* moment I decided I wanted to learn the guitar.

I also like the Tipton/Downing duo on a few songs.  "The Sentinal" comes to mind.  In fact, I think that's the next song I'm going to sit down and learn!

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Its been years since I've been to a concert thanks to my job.  But back in the day, I went to a few.  I saw Satriani live and when I got home I didn't know whether to be inspired or to throw my guitars out the window!  Nevertheless, I think he's a very soulful as well as technical player and I appreciate his music (not so much when he sings, however, lol). 

Regarding Vai, one only has to listen to "For the Love of God," to hear some soulful shredding. 

Yngvie doesn't do much for me.  I appreciate his technical prowess, but I've never been a fan of neo-classical, so that's my bad for not "feeling it."

I have to say that my favorite guitarists are Dave Murray and Adrian Smith.  When I was washing my truck back in '83, I had the radio on and "The Trooper" played.  It was the first time I had heard Iron Maiden and I just stopped washing and listened.  That was *the* moment I decided I wanted to learn the guitar.

I also like the Tipton/Downing duo on a few songs.  "The Sentinal" comes to mind.  In fact, I think that's the next song I'm going to sit down and learn!

Dave Murray's and Adrian Smith's playing made me want to pick up a guitar.  Kerry King's playing made me want to hold my ears...and it still does, though I do like Slayer.

I'm with you on Yngwie.  I can appreciate his skills, but his music fails to evoke any sort of emotion from me.

 

[swarfrat]

Poor Jennifer Batten - she has it even worse.

 

[Cagey]

I can't tell you guys how large a weight you have lifted from my shoulders. I thought there was something wrong with me for not wanting to drool and quickly acquire every recording made of Malmsteen and/or Vai while simultaneously singing their praises to anyone who'd listen.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing but the utmost respect for and am in awe of their skills. But, it's just tiring to listen to. While not absolutely, too often it's just not musical. It's too robotic, like listening to something computer-generated.

Now, Satriani I can listen to repeatedly and study on.

Just my .02¢

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I can't tell you guys how large a weight you have lifted from my shoulders. I thought there was something wrong with me for not wanting to drool and quickly acquire every recording made of Malmsteen and/or Vai while simultaneously singing their praises to anyone who'd listen.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing but the utmost respect for and am in awe of their skills. But, it's just tiring to listen to. While not absolutely, too often it's just not musical. It's too robotic, like listening to something computer-generated.

Now, Satriani I can listen to repeatedly and study on.

Just my .02¢

Okay, I'm just gonna come out and say it.  Steve Vai's music bores the Hell outta me.  I listened to some of Steve Vai's material today (about 8 songs worth...) and I'm gonna be quite honest, NONE of them did ANYTHING for me.  :dontknow:

Yeah, Vai's good; GREAT, in fact, but I just ain't "feelin' it."  The same goes for 99.5% of Yngwie's stuff.  While I like some of Yngwie's songs, I just don't particularly care for the fact that every "would-be-good" song is over-saturated with his "need" to show off.

I saw Satriani back around 1997, and I was blown away.  While I can't lay claim to being a Satriani fan, per se, the man can flat-out PLAY.  I would be much more inclined to pick up a Satriani record than a Vai record.

 

[elfro89]

...it's worth knowing that there are a whole shiteePILE of great musicians hiding out, making a living doing what they have to to buy a house and raise a family. 

Absolutely. Guitar teacher I had 100 years ago was one of those. Just a magical player, but not famous. Fortunately, he played in a very good band that got a lot of work, and he was good enough to also be able to get regular studio work during the sunshiny part of the day, so he made a living. Had a house, drove a car, ate regular meals, etc. I don't know because I'm not in the business, but according to him there are a number of guys that get by that way. It's no way to get rich, but in some areas it's a decent living if you're good enough.

It was encouraging in some ways, but discouraging in others. You can't just have some trick muscle memory born of thousands of hours in the woodshed. You have to understand music and how it's written, and be able to read it like a book. That's not a trivial skill, although a great many, if not the majority of players, tend to write that part of the whole discipline off. Funny part is, that's where most of the work is. Commercials, jingles, themes, soundtracks, on and on. There are all kinds of those things written every day that need to be played, and that's all done by studio guys. The "hit" players are pretty thin on the ground, and the chances of writing or playing a hit are narrow enough to be called "accidental". In other words, it's nothing to strive for, any more than betting the lottery is a career.

Theory among guitarists is definitely an issue. They can play van halen and slash and that's all the excuse they need to not learn any. But the opposite angle is also true, I hear people say that only the players that can read and understand music get the work which is not true at all. I'd say 20% of work is what you know and the rest is who you know, or more importantly, who knows you well enough to get you involved in their thing. What matters most of all to people is how good you sound and how well you can compliment their team (including theory and sight-reading) but I've yet to have someone through a score in my face and say "play." It's more, "play something more country" or requests like this.

I'm of the opinion that you create your own work in this business. If you push a single angle the chances of getting hired are pretty slim, you need to be active in many areas, teaching, writing music, gigging with original/cover bands and get yourself known to the locals who might then hire you for something. A lot depends on where you stay too. If your in the centre of a good area for employment and you have a lot of experience and can play good it's only a matter of time for you find someone to work with and make some money.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

...it's worth knowing that there are a whole shiteeePILE of great musicians hiding out, making a living doing what they have to to buy a house and raise a family. 

Absolutely. Guitar teacher I had 100 years ago was one of those. Just a magical player, but not famous. Fortunately, he played in a very good band that got a lot of work, and he was good enough to also be able to get regular studio work during the sunshiny part of the day, so he made a living. Had a house, drove a car, ate regular meals, etc. I don't know because I'm not in the business, but according to him there are a number of guys that get by that way. It's no way to get rich, but in some areas it's a decent living if you're good enough.

It was encouraging in some ways, but discouraging in others. You can't just have some trick muscle memory born of thousands of hours in the woodshed. You have to understand music and how it's written, and be able to read it like a book. That's not a trivial skill, although a great many, if not the majority of players, tend to write that part of the whole discipline off. Funny part is, that's where most of the work is. Commercials, jingles, themes, soundtracks, on and on. There are all kinds of those things written every day that need to be played, and that's all done by studio guys. The "hit" players are pretty thin on the ground, and the chances of writing or playing a hit are narrow enough to be called "accidental". In other words, it's nothing to strive for, any more than betting the lottery is a career.

Theory among guitarists is definitely an issue. They can play van halen and slash and that's all the excuse they need to not learn any. But the opposite angle is also true, I hear people say that only the players that can read and understand music get the work which is not true at all. I'd say 20% of work is what you know and the rest is who you know, or more importantly, who knows you well enough to get you involved in their thing. What matters most of all to people is how good you sound and how well you can compliment their team (including theory and sight-reading) but I've yet to have someone through a score in my face and say "play." It's more, "play something more country" or requests like this.

I'm of the opinion that you create your own work in this business. If you push a single angle the chances of getting hired are pretty slim, you need to be active in many areas, teaching, writing music, gigging with original/cover bands and get yourself known to the locals who might then hire you for something. A lot depends on where you stay too. If your in the centre of a good area for employment and you have a lot of experience and can play good it's only a matter of time for you find someone to work with and make some money.

Well, I'm certainly no rock star, and I can't play a single thing by EVH, but I also don't aspire to be EVH, either.  IMO, the worst insult I could possibly get from another person wouldn't be, "You suck," but "You sound like ____."

I'm not trying to live a "rock star dream," but that doesn't stop me from trying my hardest to make good music and putting it out there for people to hear.  Regardless how good or bad someone may think it is, I can take pride in knowing someone else has heard my music.

A few weeks to a month ago, I recorded a new song...all by myself.  It's my first, and given I had no assistance whatsoever with it, I'm really proud of it, and I have no problem sharing it with the world.  While it may never be on the Billboard 100 (or Billboard 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000), I can say people across state lines have heard it, or people in another country.  While it sounds silly, I like to convince myself I'm a "world reknown" artist.  As long as someone in another country's heard my music, is that "fantasy" really that far from the truth?  ccasion14:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

In my small world, the electric guitar makes me think of bands, which I like because I play in one.  The acoustic guitar makes me think of a guy that only knows how to play in G, so he capos everything.  Meanwhile, if he does have a band, the band plays in B flat so he can capo 3 and play in G in the band that bears his name.

I'm not bitter.

 

[Jusatele]

I think of the outro solo of Purple haze, and the emotion put into a 1 repeating note solo, and wonder how someone like that could put his soul into a song, and someone like Via, who I think is one of the best technical guitarist in the world, can be so sewing machine like it bores me.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

I think of the outro solo of Purple haze, and the emotion put into a 1 repeating note solo, and wonder how someone like that could put his soul into a song, and someone like Via, who I think is one of the best technical guitarist in the world, can be so sewing machine like it bores me.

:icon_thumright:

 

[mayfly]

In my small world, the electric guitar makes me think of bands, which I like because I play in one.  The acoustic guitar makes me think of a guy that only knows how to play in G, so he capos everything.  Meanwhile, if he does have a band, the band plays in B flat so he can capo 3 and play in G in the band that bears his name.

I'm not bitter.

Hey - I use a capo.  And I play the sucker behind my head!

You can get some interesting voicings when you have access to the open strings the way you like it.  I also do this for dropped-D tuning on a 12 string 

 

[m4rk0]

The unfair life of good music vs garbage:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/12-extremely-disappointing-facts-about-popular-mus