Teach me about... TAKE 2

[exaN]

I think I'm more of a plug-it-crank-it-play-it kind of guy, but I've been wondering if putting an overdrive/distortion/booster pedal somewhere in the chain could enrich the sound of my amp.

To be honest, I don't really know what I want. I've just started experimenting to find my own tone and I'd like you guys (the pros :icon_thumright to teach me a little how each kind of pedal works and how to use them with the amp.

Keep in mind that my only amp is a Carvin X100B. Here's an overview of the controls so you know what you can do with it: http://www.carvinguitars.com/manuals/X100Bmanual.pdf

Thanks

 

[Panthur]

I'm no expert, but there's a lot to be said before putting a boost/overdrive before a tube amp. I'm not a fan of the heavier distortions myself because I don't really like that real heavy stuff. To my ears, less distortion sounds 'fuller' than the heavily overdriven compressed stuff.
I think this is going to be one of those suck it and see situtations, there are sooo many different pedals, and they'll all interact differently with different amps in subtle ways. That said, I'm sure there are plenty on here who could reccommend stuff.

From my own findings, your already ahead of the game with a tube amp, because overdrive / boost pedals don't (to my ears) produce the required results on a solid state stage. Another big part of your tone will be the guitar, I play with the EMG DG-20 set and although they're single coil (sort of) they are very hot, and push pre-amps earlier than perhaps a single coil or even a humbucker.

As for how they work, the experts will no doubt elaborate / correct me... overdrive / boost pedals tend to increase the signal from the guitar to push the preamp a bit harder so you get the colour of the pedal plus some additional preamp distortion.
The heavier distortion / fuzz pedals are more about colouring the sound that hits your amp, usually by boosting and clipping the guitar signal to get a 'fuzzier' tone.
I'm not a fan of reverb pedals because unless your certain about the room that your playing it, they tend to be a bit wild and generally piss off other band members as your tone spreads out across their part of the mix.
Chorus/Vibe/Flanger/Phaser are all great for colour (I'm a floyd fan so I'm bound to say that), but to me it should be a subtle colour and not really a necessity unless your into that stuff.

As for which order they go in, there's a hot debate right there. It's best to build up I guess, start off with a boost/overdrive, chuck in a distortion if you really need it (usually overdrive + heavy amp channels are enough for me), and then move on to considering Wah, Modulation (thats chorus, flanger etc) and the more exotic stuff after. It's either that, or go for a multi-effects unit to start with in order to play around with all the stuff available before deciding what works and where and then swapping it for some quality units.

Now lets let the experts crack on....  :hello2:

 

[exaN]

I'm no expert, but there's a lot to be said before putting a boost/overdrive before a tube amp. I'm not a fan of the heavier distortions myself because I don't really like that real heavy stuff. To my ears, less distortion sounds 'fuller' than the heavily overdriven compressed stuff.
I think this is going to be one of those suck it and see situtations, there are sooo many different pedals, and they'll all interact differently with different amps in subtle ways. That said, I'm sure there are plenty on here who could reccommend stuff.

From my own findings, your already ahead of the game with a tube amp, because overdrive / boost pedals don't (to my ears) produce the required results on a solid state stage. Another big part of your tone will be the guitar, I play with the EMG DG-20 set and although they're single coil (sort of) they are very hot, and push pre-amps earlier than perhaps a single coil or even a humbucker.

As for how they work, the experts will no doubt elaborate / correct me... overdrive / boost pedals tend to increase the signal from the guitar to push the preamp a bit harder so you get the colour of the pedal plus some additional preamp distortion.
The heavier distortion / fuzz pedals are more about colouring the sound that hits your amp, usually by boosting and clipping the guitar signal to get a 'fuzzier' tone.
I'm not a fan of reverb pedals because unless your certain about the room that your playing it, they tend to be a bit wild and generally piss off other band members as your tone spreads out across their part of the mix.
Chorus/Vibe/Flanger/Phaser are all great for colour (I'm a floyd fan so I'm bound to say that), but to me it should be a subtle colour and not really a necessity unless your into that stuff.

As for which order they go in, there's a hot debate right there. It's best to build up I guess, start off with a boost/overdrive, chuck in a distortion if you really need it (usually overdrive + heavy amp channels are enough for me), and then move on to considering Wah, Modulation (thats chorus, flanger etc) and the more exotic stuff after. It's either that, or go for a multi-effects unit to start with in order to play around with all the stuff available before deciding what works and where and then swapping it for some quality units.

Now lets let the experts crack on....   :hello2:

Thanks for the reply. The effect pedal side is covered though, my chorus, delay and wah all satisfy my needs.

A lot of people say that getting the gear of your favorite musicians is a good start, I was thinking about an AC Booster or a BB Preamp because of Paul Gilbert and Andy Timmons. I don't know about overdrive and distortion pedals, none that I've heard sounds as natural as the overdrive of a tube amp (at least to me).

 

[exaN]

I apparently clicked on the "Lock Thread" button by accident... wondered why nobody answered  :toothy12:
Thanks to Cagey for telling me haha :tard: :doh:

 

[Cagey]

The X100B is a nice, high-quality amp. Carvin did a good job with those things. If you've already got some time domain effects you like, such as reverb, chorus and delay, you might be happier putting those in the effects loop to get a more natural sound out of them. They should be last in the chain, with distortion (if any) up front at the input or derived in the input stages. Past that, the only thing I'd do is try to help out it's gain structure by overdriving its input(s). An inexpensive but effective box to do that is Electro-Harmonix's LPB-1.

It's not an effect, it's simply a little power booster. Sorta like adding high-output pickups to your guitar, or if you already have hot pickups, kicking them up a notch or three. Very satisfying for the money, especially if you like to wank and crank. It's good for creating a very natural and highly saturated sort of distortion rather than the fake fizzy stuff most distortion boxes produce.

 

[exaN]

Thanks Cagey I'll put this one on my list :icon_thumright:

Will that sound good on the lead channel?

 

[Cagey]

That's where they shine. Usually, you don't want to overdrive your clean channel.

 

[Panthur]

I was wondering why it was locked hehe  :laughing7:

 

[AprioriMark]

I think this is going to be one of those suck it and see situtations,

I lost the ability to do anything but laugh like a 4th grade boy after this comment.

-Mark

 

[NLD09]

I recommend the jekyll and hyde pedal of visual sound. It's only $150 and gives you separate overdrive and distortion channels both with unique voicings. Also the overdrive channel has a bass boost, and the distortion channel has a sharp/blunt switch. I figure with all the options on it, and the great sounds coming out of it as well will give you plenty to play with and help you figure out exactly what you want from an overdrive/distortion box.

http://www.visualsound.net/index.php/products/guitar_effects_pedals/v2_jekyll_hyde

 

[GoDrex]

I used to own a Carvin x100b - - the 6L6 version.

are you trying to get more juice out of the drive channel or distort the clean channel?

I never had a lot of luck using distortion with the clean channel, but to be honest I didn't try very much. I wish I had that amp now so I could try it out. I was always sort of less than thrilled with the drive channel. I felt it was weak and uninspiring. I think I could get a better tone out of it today, than I could 20 years ago, but I think that amp's strong area was the clean channel and I didn't use it a lot. Oh well. I'd also like to try a EL-34 version to see if I would like it better, but it's doubtful I'll get that chance. I'm done messing around with Carvin.

 

[exaN]

I used to own a Carvin x100b - - the 6L6 version.

are you trying to get more juice out of the drive channel or distort the clean channel?

Paul Gilbert explained in a recent clinic that he rolls off some gain on his Vintage Modern and then triggers one of his 3 boost pedals, one is the AC Booster. I Just ordered an AC Booster, I'll see how it works out... :tard:

 

[elfro89]

man, it all depends on what you want to do with your gear. If you know what you need then this job is alot easier.

without trying to give you a lecture on gear, most working musicians have the tools they need to perform whatever task is required. Most of the time this means having the most versatile bunch of pedals and amps they can afford. You need to know what it is your trying to acheive.

If your going for the bedroom hobby thing then my advice is to get something like a digital multi fx thing, this has lots of toys and options you can arse around with.
If your wanting to play say, a bunch of covers every weekend for some dosh then you need to be ready for some serious genre jumping. Again the the digital world can help you here, but i know alot of people who swear by their analogue gear. This is where what you want comes into play. Without again sparking all this analogue vs digital bollocks I can tell you from experience that digital fx such as reverb have vastly superior qaulity with their 24 bit and sometimes 48 bit systems. This is rediculasly good qaulity!! but since this is about drive pedals. digital just hasnt got that tube sound nailed yet. if you want to enrich your sound. you want something that drives your amp naturally. Mesaboogie, Hughes and Kettner, blackstar and a bunch of others have pedals with tubes in them to give you lush overdrive which you can manipulate to get anything from light boosts to crunkin rock overdrives.

But there is no right or wrong answer, what matters is what works for you. From a professional point of view, all that matters the most is value for money and what your willing to sacrifice. If qaulity is what your after then be prepared to spend some serious ££££ but not everyone has access to these kinds of funds. So what you need is versatility!! you need to be able to do lots with very little. thats why lots of people use strats with a simple tube amp and some simple fx pedals or multi fx pedals where you can play in any popular style with 3 peices of gear.

 

[exaN]

man, it all depends on what you want to do with your gear. If you know what you need then this job is alot easier.

without trying to give you a lecture on gear, most working musicians have the tools they need to perform whatever task is required. Most of the time this means having the most versatile bunch of pedals and amps they can afford. You need to know what it is your trying to acheive.

If your going for the bedroom hobby thing then my advice is to get something like a digital multi fx thing, this has lots of toys and options you can arse around with.
If your wanting to play say, a bunch of covers every weekend for some dosh then you need to be ready for some serious genre jumping. Again the the digital world can help you here, but i know alot of people who swear by their analogue gear. This is where what you want comes into play. Without again sparking all this analogue vs digital bollocks I can tell you from experience that digital fx such as reverb have vastly superior qaulity with their 24 bit and sometimes 48 bit systems. This is rediculasly good qaulity!! but since this is about drive pedals. digital just hasnt got that tube sound nailed yet. if you want to enrich your sound. you want something that drives your amp naturally. Mesaboogie, Hughes and Kettner, blackstar and a bunch of others have pedals with tubes in them to give you lush overdrive which you can manipulate to get anything from light boosts to crunkin rock overdrives.

But there is no right or wrong answer, what matters is what works for you. From a professional point of view, all that matters the most is value for money and what your willing to sacrifice. If qaulity is what your after then be prepared to spend some serious ££££ but not everyone has access to these kinds of funds. So what you need is versatility!! you need to be able to do lots with very little. thats why lots of people use strats with a simple tube amp and some simple fx pedals or multi fx pedals where you can play in any popular style with 3 peices of gear.

Yeah those are questions I've asked myself. Before the Carvin I had a Digitech GNX2 through the clean channel of a Crate GT212. But I really want to shape my own sound instead of 30 sounds for 30 genres of music.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I am a fan of the SHO boost from Zvex, but there is only 8-10 components in them so you can make your own.  I have made about 6 of them, my friends keep lifting them...  The ultra high impedance of it's input on your pickups is cool to make humbuckers have that sparkly effect.  You have to have it first in line to do this, but it is a cool effect. 
Patrick

 

[Superlizard]

The ultra high impedance of it's input on your pickups is cool to make humbuckers have that sparkly effect.

This is true - had a Zvex Super Duper 2in1 (2 SHOs in one), and the top end (or treble if you will) was chimey and "nickel-y" sounding (like
the sound of a nickel hitting a hard surface).  Great stuff.

 

[Cagey]

I am a fan of the SHO boost from Zvex, but there is only 8-10 components in them so you can make your own.  I have made about 6 of them, my friends keep lifting them...  The ultra high impedance of it's input on your pickups is cool to make humbuckers have that sparkly effect.  You have to have it first in line to do this, but it is a cool effect.  
Patrick

That's the same thing as the LPB-1 from Electro-Harmonix. I used to build those for the same reason back when they first came out in the early '70s. Only about 6 or 7 parts, all of them dirt cheap. Didn't even have a circuit board - you just kinda tied them all together from point to point on the jacks/switch/knob. They sold retail for about $25 back then, and I could build them for about $15, box and all. Seems to me I built that circuit into a couple blackface Fenders, as well. Rectify some power from the tube filament winding on the power transformer so you didn't need a battery. Helped those things out quite a bit.

 

[elfro89]

Yeah those are questions I've asked myself. Before the Carvin I had a Digitech GNX2 through the clean channel of a Crate GT212. But I really want to shape my own sound instead of 30 sounds for 30 genres of music.

If shaping your own sound is what your after then its an endless struggle for most people. You may like something for ages but you will get bored of it soon enough. You will sound like you regardless of your gear and my advice is to just keep playing and playing and playing until you are happy with where you are going musically. I think the trick is to find gear that you need for whatever application you want to use it for. Once you know what sounds you like, you can almost get them from any amp or pedal combinations, but at this stage you will probably know what gear it is you want.

perhaps to keep it fresh try some new amps and maybe see if there isnt something that really grabs you. Hughes & Kettner aswell as some cornford amps are amazing, but leave that versatile option open should you need it. Even with those 30 genres you will still sound like you, unless your goal is otherwise. I wouldnt look to much into your unique identity. Your influences will show without needing to spend money accenting them.

But i would strongly advise against chucking hard earned cash at a hit or miss.

 

[TBurst Std]

First thing I would do is gain stage it. I did it with all my tube amps.

Use the boost as a input trim (ala mixing desk) to get the most out of your guitars output and maximize gain staging at the input. Plug in your effects chain as normal, with the exception of placing the boost last in the chain. Set the boost Vol on maximum, set your amp to a fairly low volume clean sound (as in "dead clean") , now footswitch your boost to "on" and start playing clean rhythm on your guitar, use your ear to set the sensitivity of your boost as you play, the idea here is to listen for the amp starting to break up as you are playing your standard rhythm style, when you find the "break up point" back off slightly on the sensitivity until you have the desired clean sound.

You have just set your guitars output for maximized gain staging with your amplifier. After you have the first preamp tube better matched to your guitar, you will need to set your amps volume control a bit lower in most cases and simply set any other effects that come before your boost to their unity gain output position. If your amp has a bright cap permanently attached (deluxe reverb), you could experience some extra top end because of your relatively lower volume settings, the best option here is to “clip out” that offensive bright cap, and most amps will have a bright switch which means you can simply turn that cap off.

 

[erogenousjones17]

This is a little off-topic, since it was just mentioned in passing in this particular thread, but can anyone explain to me the advantages or disadvantages of using an overdrive pedal on the clean channel of a tube amp versus a drive or lead channel? The core of my sound comes from a Boss OS-2 into the clean channel of a Peavey ValveKing (groan, I know). Pedals just don't sound right to my ears into the dirty channel. I know there's never any hard and fast rules for this kind of thing, but any comments would be greatly appreciated. When it comes to tube amps, it always feels like I'm doing something "wrong" or "backwards".  :laughing7: