Swamp Ash Finish Question

[JaySwear]

i've had a bass neck for quite some time (found one i really liked on ebay) and haven't gotten around to getting a body for it. i think i've found one i like finally, but my problem is it's not finished. below is the ebay for the body, it's been grain sealed but not painted or stained.

my question is, whats the most foolproof way to finish off this body? i'm not too trustworthy with finishes, so i'm really looking for the easiest thing i could do with this. it's no guarantee i'd even get this particular body, but if i did i'd like to know i could handle it. i'd be looking for a finish pretty close to the natural color of swamp ash, maybe a little darker. thanks so much!

here's the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/Loaded-J-Bass-Body-Unfinished-DIY_W0QQitemZ370250873924QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item5634abfc44&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_2613wt_941

 

[m4rk0]

I finished my swamp ash body with 2 applications of transparent grain filler, a light stain and about 5 coats of true oil...
I could have slapped on another coat of grain filler, but I like the natural feel

 

[Keyser Soze]

Swamp ash is an open grained wood - if you want a smooth surface finish then it will need grain filling.

Swamp ash also takes stain very poorly - blotching being the main problem.  With lighter stains this tends to be less noticeable.  IIRC Warmoth will not stain ash bodies for this very reason.

Foolproof options would be:

A.  Straight danish oil type finish, no filler, no nothing.  It will look very natural but also provides almost no protection for the wood.

B.  Grain filling with uncolored filler followed by some sort of clear topcoat.  You could select a topcoat that will provide a bit of coloration (like Tru-oil, or amber shellac. or even a tinted clearcoat if you have spray gear)

C.  Seal with clear shellac, grain filling with colored filler, seal again, spray on tinted clear (toner) if desired , clear topcoat

The most likely pitfalls you seek to avoid are:

1.  Attempting to create a smooth surface finish without proper grain filling.

2.  Applying any form of coloration (stain or dye) directly to the wood - That's the reason for sealing the wood prior to using a colored grain filler,  otherwise some of the color of the filler will act like a stain/dye when it hits the raw wood.

 

[bpmorton777]

Keyser,

any reason you would not want to use Bullseye sealcoat as your top coats? We recently re-finished an old china cabinet with Bullseye and then deft gloss on top of that but it did look very nice with just the bullseye.

Brian

 

[Keyser Soze]

If Bullseye works for you then who am I to argue...

That said, I've tried it on some furniture (ran short of amber) and my results were less than stellar.  Bullseye really is engineered to be used as a sealer, meaning they build it to go on thin, and even, and be reasonably amenable to sanding.  Because it is such a thin 'cut' of shellac (somewhere less than 2 lb.) it doesn't build very quickly either.

The newer shelf stable pre-mixed shellacs are really quite good products.  I use the amber all the time for sealing off oiled wood or just for the nice coloration.  But for actual topcoating, where maximum durability and moisture resistance are desired, if I'm going to use shellac I prefer to mix my own from fresh dewaxed flake.  Yes it's expensive, and time consuming, but IMO the results are superior.

 

[DangerousR6]

If Bullseye works for you then who am I to argue...

That said, I've tried it on some furniture (ran short of amber) and my results were less than stellar.  Bullseye really is engineered to be used as a sealer, meaning they build it to go on thin, and even, and be reasonably amenable to sanding.  Because it is such a thin 'cut' of shellac (somewhere less than 2 lb.) it doesn't build very quickly either.

The newer shelf stable pre-mixed shellacs are really quite good products.  I use the amber all the time for sealing off oiled wood or just for the nice coloration.  But for actual topcoating, where maximum durability and moisture resistance are desired, if I'm going to use shellac I prefer to mix my own from fresh dewaxed flake.  Yes it's expensive, and time consuming, but IMO the results are superior.

Zinser makes a dewaxed shellac...

 

[Keyser Soze]

It's not just the lack of wax.  Once dissolved in solution all shellac products have a shelf life.  The older they get the less well they perform. 

Really old stuff doesn't even dry fully hard, wait long enough and it will only 'dry' to a gummy sticky mess.  The pre-mixed products are a rather new invention that have extended the shelf life of shellac, but even they have an expiration date stamped on the can.  That is the main reason I use flake for topcoating - it is as fresh as I can get. 

If you have some pre-mix (or stuff you mixed up yourself some time ago) brush a layer onto a piece of glass or smooth metal.  Ideally it should be fingernail hard within 30 minutes.  If it is not hard within two hours it will probably never get hard and should be discarded.

 

[bpmorton777]

good stuff to know. It was just that the china cabnet looked so nice and glossy and "finished" that made me have that idea. We did use Deft brush-on on top of that, two coats I think.

would absolutly want to protect a guitar from my sweaty arms!!!

Brian

 

[DangerousR6]

It's not just the lack of wax.  Once dissolved in solution all shellac products have a shelf life.  The older they get the less well they perform. 

Really old stuff doesn't even dry fully hard, wait long enough and it will only 'dry' to a gummy sticky mess.  The pre-mixed products are a rather new invention that have extended the shelf life of shellac, but even they have an expiration date stamped on the can.  That is the main reason I use flake for topcoating - it is as fresh as I can get. 

If you have some pre-mix (or stuff you mixed up yourself some time ago) brush a layer onto a piece of glass or smooth metal.  Ideally it should be fingernail hard within 30 minutes.  If it is not hard within two hours it will probably never get hard and should be discarded.

Good to know.... :icon_thumright:

 

[TomK]

Swamp ash is an open grained wood - if you want a smooth surface finish then it will need grain filling.

Swamp ash also takes stain very poorly - blotching being the main problem.  With lighter stains this tends to be less noticeable.  IIRC Warmoth will not stain ash bodies for this very reason.

Have you received word that Warmoth won't stain ash for the reason it blotches?  I'm curious about that.  My experience is that ash takes a dye stain quite well and uniformly.  The problem arises when you want a nice glossy, glassy finish and you have to get grain filler in the pores. For example if you want to do a standard dyed blue or red, you have to dye the bare ash (ha ha) then seal it with shellac or other sealer then get grain filler to look like your color but a little darker.   This is labor intensive and trial and error.  For instance I dyed a strat blue then added blue artist color to neutral grain filler until the grain filler dried a little darker than the ash body. Then I applied the filler removed the excess and sealed in the filler.  This is more difficult than getting a brown filler into the grain then spraying a blue (for instance) tinted clear coat.  I believe this is why Warmoth won't stain ash.

 

[Fcal124]

That's funny!
This is a one piece Swamp Ash Tele that I had finished in Transparent Tangerine by Warmoth.

 

[tfarny]

Cool tele. Keyser, I think the OP is really looking for a painless, 'first finish' solution. I had very good results staining swamp ash on my first finishing job. I thought it came out pretty nice considering it was my first time. It was the tung oil that really screwed me up. Took the stain great though. That was a Warmoth swamp ash tele body, I used minwax oil based. Here I'll find a pic...

 

[bpmorton777]

that ransparent tangerine tele has the color in one of the coats of spray on poly not a stain on wood deal at all. :toothy11:

Brian

 

[Keyser Soze]

TFarny that looks awesome. 

Woods that stain poorly (e.g. alder, pine, etc) also tend to be highly variable - sometime you have problems, sometimes not.  You just never know until you are committed.

Also, many products (like the minwax stains and especially their gel stains) are formulated to minimize the likelihood of problems.  General finished also makes a nice series of gel-stains designed for hard to stain woods.  Pre-stains can be useful sometimes.  But I've had limited success with the commercial products.  A common pre-treatment in the woodworking world is a wash coat of dilute hide glue or glue size (Elmer's) followed by a light even scuff sanding with fine grade paper.  Basically what you are doing is creating a more uniform surface to prevent over penetration.