Super V Bladerunner trem

[thumb55]

has anyone had a chance to mess with one of these yet?

 

[elfro89]

nope.
































:icon_jokercolor:

 

[Cagey]

has anyone had a chance to mess with one of these yet?

Never heard of it. No link?

If it's not Scottish, it's CRAP!​

 

[thumb55]

http://www.super-vee.com/

I'm more interested in the non locking one.

 

[erogenousjones17]

From their website: "BladeRunner - The Best Non-Locking Tremolo on the Market Today. Patented "Blade" Technology, Frictionless Action, and a Positionable Whammy Bar. The BladeRunner Maintains the Classic Trem Style, but Out-Performs all Other Non-Locking Tremolo Systems."

I don't trust anyone who uses that many unnecessary capital letters.  :laughing7:

I do, however, like the look of the non-Bladerunner model. It's kind of like a Floyd Rose, only slightly less ugly.

 

[pabloman]

I got to play the original SuperVee just before it went into production. There's a guy named Frank Perez that is in some videos of theirs. He's the one that turned me on to them.  It's a badass trem.

 

[thumb55]

I'm wanting to do a little more "traditional" style of strat but I don't really like vintage bridges so I thought this might be cool.  There is something about the little plastic cap on the end of the trem that turns me off.

Does anyone know of a vintage trem arm replacement without that little thingy?

 

[ericar]

I bought one and didn't like it . The quality is very nice and install was very easy. I put it on a malmsteen strat because I hate Fender 6screw  trems. It was certainly better
but what I didn't like was the firm feel and amount of force I needed to use . Because of the design , you are fighting the force of the springs as well as the piece of flat spring steel.
I tried every setup and combination of springs in the back to get a lighter touch with no luck. The design is eligent and works as advertised. The quality of the bridge and chrome finish
is better than Fenders. I also find floyd rose trems to firm for my liking. I only feel comfortable with Kahler trems. I am sure most other people will love the Bladerunner. A big part
of the problem with my situation is that I wasn't ready to change my tuners and nut on my Malmsteen to help with tuning stability. I don't know how anyone can use a Fender
6 screw trem without going crazy. If anyone has a Kahler trem in good shape, I will gladly trade my Bladerunner for it.

 

[Cagey]

Sounds like a serious setup problem. The springs only have to match the string pull whether it's a floater or not, so if it's any heavier than that, the springs aren't right. Once they're balanced, all vibrato bridges take about the same pressure to operate and feel similar except for slop from thin arms, crummy saddles, loose mounts, etc. Repeatability can be a real problem, though, especially with the 6 point units. You couldn't give me a body set up for one of those miserable things unless you knew somebody I could sell it to immediately. Then I still wouldn't take it because you should sucker a buyer in yourself. I've got enough to answer to my maker for without being deliberately obtuse with malice aforethought <grin>

 

[AutoBat]

it's the reasons mentioned above that i switched from a 6 point vintage to the boogie rail.  it's so nice to be able to whang my bar and let the talent ooze out without going out of tune.

 

[ericar]

I always thought the same about springs and tension. I thought it was an equal balance too.
I don't know why but the blaerunner trem is much harder to press down. I made sure both
setups were in a floating state which means equal balance. ????
I have to say that using the same string gauge, I can dive bomb my Kahler with my little finger.
I can't do that with my floyd rose or fender trem.
I do want to mention again that the bladerunner was a beautiful trem but it just wasn't for me.

 

[Cagey]

I always thought the same about springs and tension. I thought it was an equal balance too.

It's not something you have to think about or believe in; it's physical law. There's no getting away from it. If you can actually feel a difference and it's not just your imagination, then something else is going on. For instance, there's friction and leverage to consider. Then, there are the dreaded non-linear response curves. Fewer contact points mean less friction, and a longer wang bar is going to give you more leverage. Either way, it'll be easier to wank on. Combine the two, and it gets even easier.

There's a calculator here that'll let you discover what your string tension would be for a given setup. If you figure a 6" wang bar and 1/8" travel at the saddles, you end up with a 48:1 advantage at the end of your wang bar. According to the calculator at the link, a typical set of 10s will pull 132lbs in standard tune. Divide that by 48, and you find that in a perfect world you need to apply 2.75 lbs to the end of your wang bar to reposition it.

Of course, we don't live in a perfect world. If we did, spending more money when you're deeply in debt would reduce your debt, and The One would be a hero of brobdingnagian proportions <grin> Also, springs (and you can think of strings as springs, too) don't have linear responses to stress.

 

[back2thefutre]

I'm sooooooo sick of tremolos. Just a big headache. Hardtails for me now.  :binkybaby:

 

[Cagey]

I'm sooooooo sick of tremolos. Just a big headache. Hardtails for me now.  :binkybaby:

That's understandable, particularly if you've had any of the older designs installed. They're a real pain in the shorts. I know of guitars that have been smashed over them. Guy had an anger management problem, but still.

I don't use mine much at all, but if you've got a good one, then it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. That's one part, but the other is you need locking tuners and a slippery nut, which I think is necessary whether you want a wang bar or not. So, at that point, it's only about a $50 to $75 difference between being able to and wishing you could wank on the strings here and there, since you gotta buy some kinda bridge. Of course, that's only for a good system. If somebody tricks you into a Floyd, then they're an expensive and disruptive thing best left to sponsored players with on-staff techs.

 

[ericar]

How do you explain the difference in feel between 2 and 3 springs with same gauge strings, same trem , same guitar , and floating setup?
I did have to adjust the tension of the springs but there was a difference in feel and force needed to drop the notes afterwards.

 

[Cagey]

How do you explain the difference in feel between 2 and 3 springs with same gauge strings, same trem , same guitar , and floating setup?
I did have to adjust the tension of the springs but there was a difference in feel and force needed to drop the notes afterwards.

Spring tension is rarely linear. With coil springs, if you graph tension vs. extension or compression, you'd see there's a curve to it. That is, the farther you stretch or squeeze a spring, the more tension or compression it takes to stretch or squeeze it to move a defined distance. So, if you only install two springs, then in order to balance against that 130 pounds or so of string pull, they've got to be pulled out to where they're screaming. Add a spring, and you can relax all three a bit. Add another, and relax even more, and so on.

So, if you want to counterbalance 130 pounds with two springs, you need each one to be pulling back 65 pounds. If there's three, then they each need to pull back ~43 pounds, and so on. Thing is, because of the non-linear response curve, it's easier to stretch a spring that's nearly relaxed than it is to stretch one that's under great tension.

Few people use all five springs allotted for most vibratos. Most use three, as far as I've been able to tell. Seems to be a happy medium. I haven't done a great deal of experimentation, because I just don't care that much. Three works for me, so I don't tempt fate <grin> But, I suspect 5 is really the number to use. Problem I can see with that, though, is they're liable to fall out of the "sustain" block when you remove all the strings, because they'd be under almost no tension at all.

 

[Steve_Karl]

I haven't done it yet ... taken all strings off with the springs on. ( Wilkinson VS-100 )
This is the first set of strings ever on there and I slipped a block of wood behind the trem block, strung it, and then put the springs on,
but now that you mention it I'll have to cut two skinny pieces of wood just for that purpose.
There's just enough room on the outside of the springs, on both sides, to slip a piece on wood in there to keep the block in it's resting position when removing all of the strings.
It's on my tado list!

I'm using Raw Vintage springs from these guys: http://www.prosoundcommunications.com/shop/product.php?productid=16157
It's definitely stiffer than my Kahler Flat Mount which is a very easy thumb and one finger push all the way down to the land of train wreck ( ducks 'n' runs )
but still not stiff enough to be a problem.

 

[ericar]

Thanks for all the great info. I was always thinking that the few springs the easier the trem feel when all along it has
been the other way around. Maybe I will try the bladerunner again with 4 or 5 springs. It's true, you do learn something
new every day.

Thanks Guys

 

[Steve_Karl]

My last Floyd had 2 springs on it and it was easier than the 5 on the VS-100, but I always use 9s on wang bar equipped guitars.

 

[thumb55]

I love my Wilkinson VS-100 but I was lloking at tht bladerunner as something a little closer to vintage.