Stupid boom-boom Wrecked National holiday in Netherlands

[tfarny]

Hey Superlizard, there is a nice article in the NYT about "socialism" and the European system from an American who lives in Amsterdam. It's a nice read full of facts that don't get too much press here, all written and sourced by people who actually have experienced what they're talking about, might make you think a bit. I'm not trying to start an argument, just to offer you a bit of reading.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03european-t.html

 

[mayfly]

Hey Superlizard, there is a nice article in the NYT about "socialism" and the European system from an American who lives in Amsterdam. It's a nice read full of facts that don't get too much press here, all written and sourced by people who actually have experienced what they're talking about, might make you think a bit. I'm not trying to start an argument, just to offer you a bit of reading.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03european-t.html

Sounds like Canada - except our shops stay open longer.  Oh - and sadly you can't get gin at the theater.

 

[GoDrex]

I think we should allow (I mean force) 6 year olds to work 12 hour days in factories.  :icon_thumright:


btw - good article tfarny

 

[exalted]

I think we should allow (I mean force) 6 year olds to work 12 hour days in factories.  :icon_thumright:

RON PAUL '08! '12!

 

[Superlizard]

I think we should allow (I mean force) 6 year olds to work 12 hour days in factories.  :icon_thumright:

I think we should allow 6 year olds to work in the movie business and make millions if they can get a deal like that.

Oh yeah, we already do that.   :icon_thumright:

Is there anything the free market can't do?  Nope.  And the power lies within the people... well, as long
as they don't get all stupid.  But who's to blame for "stupid"?  Not the ones selling; that's for sure.

Therein lies the responsibility for said freedom.

 

[exalted]

The free market is capable of anything. Not just the glittery items you're bringing up, but also the bad....

...child sex trade, human slavery, murder for sport, human experimentation...

...I mean, hey, if the price is right, right?

 

[Superlizard]

The free market is capable of anything. Not just the glittery items you're bringing up, but also the bad....

...child sex trade, human slavery, murder for sport, human experimentation...

...I mean, hey, if the price is right, right?

I wasn't talking about unreasonable/immoral trade, but I'll humor this nonetheless:

So, because the free market could include human slavery, etc... does that mean we throw the
entire free market concept out the window? 

I've seen this before - usually it's "throw the baby out with the bath water" in lieu for some utopian concept which cannot exist in the real world.

Perhaps instead of replacing the entire free market concept in favor of, oh say, socialism - we regulate that which is unreasonable/immoral, etc... .

And alright, back to the Will Smith argument - stop crying cuz he makes way more money than you.  This is America - the gov't isn't forcing you to accept the meager living of a farmer.  Get yo' ass out to Hollyweird and just do it if you want that kind of money.  Who knows?  Maybe you'll get your break.  But pissing and moaning about it will definitely get you nothing; that's guaranteed.

It's all up to you (and don't be lookin' for no lazy-ass handouts, either).

 

[Superlizard]

Here's a European you may well know, and his opinion on America and the market here:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZiWIdgLS-Y[/youtube]

 

[exalted]

Now, I know YOU aren't endorsing or even condoning those acts. But give the wrong people freedom, and you'd have it on your hands.

Where is the line between child labor and paying for sex with children? Between paying employees sub-sustenance wages and owning them outright? Even if you, Superlizard, see it, there will always be those who can't.

I am not endorsing socialism. I agree with you - we have to do our best to regulate right and wrong (such esoteric concepts!)...that's what our government is for. We elect our officials so that they can evaluate that sort of thing. Obama isn't pushing socialism; he's reacting to what society wants and/or needs right now...protection of the everyman. If he turns out to be wrong and things don't get better, then we all vote for Bobby Jindal come 2012, and protection of the wealthy resumes.

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

antidisestablishmentarianism

Fixed spelling

 

[Rick]

The government (via the people) have to step up to the plate sometimes. 

Take a look at the TVA bringing rural electricification to the south.  If it wasn't for the government spending, it wouldn't have happened, ever!  It changed the lives of the people there for the better and encouraged industry.  Now adays I guess the analogy is rural wind technology and broadband deployment.  Up here in the NorthEast we have vast areas with only a dial up connection.  No cable company is going to voluntarily invest infrastructure build up, unless it can show a profit immediately, and this kind of thing shows up as a profit for the community years latter.  Same for wind power, which we have lots of, except no one wants to build the wires to get the power out.

Frankly it's tragic and if you want people's lives to get better, in certain instances government has to do it, cause the private sector is short sighted.  Just look at the auto industry, when Ford wanted to start building gas economical cars in 2003, the board of direrctors fired the chairman because he wasn't focusing on high margin SUV's.  Well there's a reason why ford isn't totally in the dumper and chrysler is.  I could go on and on about how capitalism misallocates resources, in certain situations, but I won't,  this is a guitar site afterall.

I just wish people weren't so short sighted thinking only about their little slice of the pie.  We are all connected.

 

[tfarny]

For a good example of pure capitalist, no government intervention whatsoever society, just check out Somalia. If you really hate government, maybe you should move there! Personally I'd prefer The Netherlands even if the taxes are high....