String Tension : TOM vs String Thru-body

[Doughboy]

I'm wondering if a TOM will have less string tension than a string thru body? I'm looking to get one on my Les Paul & want the least tension possible.

Also, sustain wise, are they equal or does a string thru body tend to have better sustain.

 

[JimBeed]

Well i dont know about the bridge if TOM is a type of bridge for a guitar,
but ive always been told for bass a string thru body has better sustain than a top loaded bridge,  so id guess same applies for guitar? but with the smaller strings i cant be sure  :dontknow:

 

[AutoBat]

TOM = Tune-o-Matic bridge, common on Les Pauls

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Tension at pitch would be the same regardless, or it wouldn't be tuneable.  A string thru should have more sustain because of the breakover angle at the saddle.  However, I'm not aware of LPs have sustain issues.  They are T-O-M equipped and famous for sustain.  Scale length, 25.5" or 24 3/4" is one more detail to address as well.

 

[Superlizard]

I dunno bout TOM vs string-thru, but here's a little string tension tip for
those of youse TOM+tailpiece owners:

Try wrapping the strings around in reverse... like the really old-school no-bridge setups.

In other words, insert the start of the string into the *opposite side from norm* hole on the tailpiece,
so the string ball end would be facing the TOM bridge piece once the string is threaded all the way through.

Then wrap string up and over the tailpiece, thru the tuner hole and tune up as normal.

You will get slightly less tension on the strings.   Not that 24 3/4" scale is tight as it is anyways, but ya know...

*NOTE*  you *will* mar the surface of the tailpiece slightly.

 

[Doughboy]

I'm mainly concerned about string tension. I like slinky loose feeling tension & was wondering if the String thru body would cause more tension than a TOM on the same scal eneck.

 

[Cagey]

The scale sets the tension needed to reach a particular pitch. You could have a string that's a mile long overall, but the tension between the two endpoints (scale) would have to be the same as one that was only a half inch longer than needed for the endpoints. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but it's true. You'd think that because the string is longer overall, that there'd be more material to stretch, so it should be easier to do so. But, what ends up happening is the longer the string gets overall, the tighter it has to be to get the proper tension between the fixed endpoints. So, it never changes.

That's why Les Pauls and SGs will feel more stretchy or slinky than Strats. They have a shorter scale length, so no matter how you wrap the strings around the bridge or tailpiece or through the body or some kind of complex vibrato bridge that routes the strings all over hell's creation, the strings will always be under less tension because the vibrating length is shorter.

An easy way to see this is to simply plink the strings on your headstock (or behind the bridge if you can). The note that sounds will be incredibly high, even though it's under the same tension as the rest of the string. It's just shorter. The only way to lower that note would be to loosen the string. Dramatically, in that case, but you see what I mean. Scale lengths work the same way. The shorter they are, the less tension they need to be under to get to a particular frequency so the slinkier they feel.

Downside is, the shorter the scale length, the less distance there is between notes so the closer together the frets need to be. That means you need greater accuracy and smaller fingertips to get the same performance out of a short scale as you do a longer one. The difference is small between traditional Gibson/Fender scales - it's only 3/4" overall - but you can definitely feel it. Get used to one, and you'll be sloppy as a St. Bernard on the other.

 

[Doughboy]

Cagey, I've played nothing but 1 5/8 & 25 1/2" strat necks all my life & the next one will be 1 11/16 & a 25" scale. Is this going to make me sound like CC Deville after an all night binge?  :sad1:

 

[Cagey]

I don't know about that, but I know you'll feel it. You're also likely to miss some notes here and there, over- or under-shooting them. It'll likely just come out as slightly sloppy fingering, not entirely missed notes. A little dead here, a little buzzy there, that sort of thing. How much is going to depend on how long you've been playing, your playing style, etc. Some guys make the transition pretty easily, so you may adjust right away.

 

[Doughboy]

I don't know about that, but I know you'll feel it. You're also likely to miss some notes here and there, over- or under-shooting them. It'll likely just come out as slightly sloppy fingering, not entirely missed notes. A little dead here, a little buzzy there, that sort of thing. How much is going to depend on how long you've been playing, your playing style, etc. Some guys make the transition pretty easily, so you may adjust right away.

I have no choice as a 25" scale is all they offer. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[JaySwear]

are you going Carvin or PRS? just curious, since those are the 2 big names i know of who specialize in 25" scales.

anyway, you will definitely feel it. but it won't be that bad. you might even hit a few wrong notes, but just be glad you're not going from a 24" to a 25.5" or something :icon_biggrin:

 

[Doughboy]

are you going Carvin or PRS? just curious, since those are the 2 big names i know of who specialize in 25" scales.

anyway, you will definitely feel it. but it won't be that bad. you might even hit a few wrong notes, but just be glad you're not going from a 24" to a 25.5" or something :icon_biggrin:

I'm going with a Carvin CS6. It seems like an amazing guitar for the price.

 

[Cagey]

I have no choice as a 25" scale is all they offer. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

It's nothing to agonize about. You'll adjust pretty fast, and may not notice it at all. Same with the neck width. You'll notice a slight loss of accuracy at first, but adjust to it pretty fast. Actually, unless you're doing a lot of fast moves, you may not notice it at all. But, if you knew how to do "Cliffs of Dover" or something like that at speed on a Strat-scale neck, you'll have some adjusting to do. Of course, if you're good enough for those kinds of moves, the neck makes less difference than you might think. Again, I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like you're moving to a 35" bass.

 

[Doughboy]

I dunno bout TOM vs string-thru, but here's a little string tension tip for
those of youse TOM+tailpiece owners:

Try wrapping the strings around in reverse... like the really old-school no-bridge setups.

In other words, insert the start of the string into the *opposite side from norm* hole on the tailpiece,
so the string ball end would be facing the TOM bridge piece once the string is threaded all the way through.

Then wrap string up and over the tailpiece, thru the tuner hole and tune up as normal.

You will get slightly less tenison on the strings.   Not that 24 3/4" scale is tight as it is anyways, but ya know...

*NOTE*  you *will* mar the surface of the tailpiece slightly.

Joe Bonamassa does this & he says that 11s feel like light 10s. I have weak girly hands so 11s would kill me.

 

[Paul-less]

I dunno bout TOM vs string-thru, but here's a little string tension tip for
those of youse TOM+tailpiece owners:

Try wrapping the strings around in reverse... like the really old-school no-bridge setups.

In other words, insert the start of the string into the *opposite side from norm* hole on the tailpiece,
so the string ball end would be facing the TOM bridge piece once the string is threaded all the way through.

Then wrap string up and over the tailpiece, thru the tuner hole and tune up as normal.

You will get slightly less tenison on the strings.   Not that 24 3/4" scale is tight as it is anyways, but ya know...

*NOTE*  you *will* mar the surface of the tailpiece slightly.

I need to call bullshit.

tension has to do with string gauge, and string length.

I do, however, believe with would decrease sustain, since that beautiful break angle coming off of the T-o-M is being bastardized by putting the strings OVER the tailpiece.....

 

[AutoBat]

if you want the shortest string length, maybe you should jump on a Gotoh 510

 

[Paul-less]

if you want the shortest string length, maybe you should jump on a Gotoh 510

Maybe I should rephrase.

By string length, I ment from the nut to the saddle. That is the length that is the string is vibrating.

I wil say, however, that those Gotoh 510's would look pretty sexy on a LPS

 

[bagman67]

The difference is small between traditional Gibson/Fender scales - it's only 3/4" overall - but you can definitely feel it. Get used to one, and you'll be sloppy as a St. Bernard on the other.

This is exactly why I don't like Les Pauls (well, the scale length, and the generally higher weight).  I did pick up a totally awesome sounding, very light weight LPS with P90's (Gibson's "Faded" line) that, despite its tremendous tone, I could not get used to because I had played strats and teles (and my Martin) since I picked up the guitar 24 years ago.  Old habits die hard.

Guess I'll have to build a Warmoth LPS with a 25.5" scale to recreate that bit of lost opportunity...

C'est la vie.

Peace
Bagman

 

[Cagey]

This is exactly why I don't like Les Pauls (well, the scale length, and the generally higher weight).  I did pick up a totally awesome sounding, very light weight LPS with P90's (Gibson's "Faded" line) that, despite its tremendous tone, I could not get used to because I had played strats and teles (and my Martin) since I picked up the guitar 24 years ago.  Old habits die hard.

You got that right. And to add to the list of reasons a LP just feels wrong, you'd have to add that carpal tunnel syndrome is just no fun at all. That neck/body joint is huge, and occurs early on the scale. I don't care how big your hands or how long your fingers are, you got some serious reaching around to do to get anything done in the upper registers. After owning one for a while, I don't understand how the guys who are good at playing those things get that way. Gotta be a labor of love, because the little rascals do sound good for some things.

 

[bagman67]

I don't care how big your hands or how long your fingers are, you got some serious reaching around to do to get anything done in the upper registers.

That's what she said.

Ducking and running,

Bagman