String Buzz.......

[BigSteve22]

Over the last few days, I noticed that my Strat had a string buzz that it never had before. First the low E, then the A, finally the D & G, all starting at the 5th fret. As it's a shot scale, 24.75",  I thought perhaps they had stretched out, and that, combined with the lower tension of the scale length, had somehow caused this problem. (Thinking about it further made me realize that my Hagstrom has an even shorter scale, with the same strings, and this never happened.)

Anyway, I started with a fresh set of strings. They weren't that old, perhaps 4 weeks, but it was time to change them anyway, and a fresh set of strings never hurts. During the change, I noticed that the low E saddle was not sitting evenly, one of the set screws was a little lower than the other. A half turn of an allen wrench fixed this. The low E buzz was somewhat lessened, but still evident as was the A, D & G buzz.

I tried raising the bridge plate adjustment. Doing so got rid of the buzz, but the action was now between .060" and .070" on the low E at the 12th fret. That's WAY too high for my liking, so I reset it to it's previous position.

Finally, I got out my trusty machined straight edge and checked the neck. Dead flat. Which is pretty strange, as I had set it to have an appx. .003" relief! (Just enough to slip a sheet of 16#, (appx. .00325"), paper under the straight edge at the 7th fret.) It's not much relief, but enough to keep the strings from buzzing. So I loosened the strings and gave the side adjust a little left hand twist, (less than a 1/4 turn), retuned, and the results were much improved. A couple of more loosen, twist, retune cycles had everything was back to normal. No more buzz.

My first question is this: I finished the build on this guitar in late January, so this is really it's first transition from a dry to humid air. (Not really that humid, as I have central air with a dehumidify cycle which keeps things from getting anywhere near uncomfortable.) It's a maple neck which is finished in satin lacquer. I've heard how stable the Wormoth Pro Series necks are, is it normal to need to reset them after 5 or 6 months, or first summer transition? (It's been absolutely, flawlessly stable up until now.)

Second question: If this was caused by humidity, wouldn't the expansion of the wood, against the static truss rod, cause the neck to have more relief instead of less?

Adjusting the neck is no big deal, and I've done it many times on other instruments, I'm just curious about the circumstances of this event. Any insights?

 

[Cagey]

I usually try to set up necks with a flat 'board because that's how I set the frets up, but you can't leave them that way. It's too close. Sounds dead at best, and buzzes at worst. I've found that about .008" is a good relief. Set it up flat, then relieve the neck. To go along with that, I usually set the nut slots to give .012" clearance at the first fret. With those dimensions, the neck plays about as well as it can ever be and still be clear using 9s or 10s. If you use heavier strings, they have more inertia to them and will bang into things more easily, so you might add a couple thou to those numbers.

The "Pro" series necks are incredibly stable. In all cases with Warmoth parts, I call them "set it and forget it" necks. Even in wildly changing atmospheres, the things just don't move. But, they need to be set up right to start with.

 

[Neo Fender]

I've always wondered about that.  I get the inertia bit but also wondered if moving to a heavier gauge (and the associated greater string tension) would result in a tighter vibration pattern.

Maybe not.

If you use heavier strings, they have more inertia to them and will bang into things more easily

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I've not had to adjust my BariTele neck in nearly 3 years, and I live less than 15 miles from where it was built.  My Tru-Oil finish is holding up nicely.

Very stable neck.  I did have it strung up under tension for a few months prior to doing the actual level/crown/dress on it too, which may have help it acclimate even more.

I had to adjust my necks more regularly when I lived in the Bay Area and Central Valley of Ca. for many years as the humidity levels would be all over the place.  Here in the PNW, it's pretty consistent all the time.

 

[BigSteve22]

Gentlemen- Thanks for the replies.

KG-
My question isn't about how much relief to set. (Although I value your input and do thank you for the insight into the specs you use. I may try your .008" relief setting, lower the saddles, and see how it feels.) My question is, has anyone on the forum ever had the relief he, (or she), set on a Pro Series neck change, as it did on mine. It was set for a small (.003"-.004") relief, and it had no relief when I checked it yesterday. I used a 12" precision engineering straight edge, and could not slide the thinnest feeler gauge leaf (.0015") under it at any fret. I usually expect a neck to require adjustment as the seasons change, but after all I have read about the stability of the Pro Series necks, I was surprised that it set had changed.

TonyFlyingSquirrel-
I did not allow the setup to sit for any appreciable length of time, and that may well be the reason for the recent change.

Neo Fender-
I have not changed the brand or gauge of strings, (Ernie Ball Hybrid Slinky's with an .018w G string in place of the 16p), or anything else for that matter. This was the first time it was checked since I checked it when it came back from the shop after getting the nut cut. I checked it then, and it was dead straight at that point, I added the slight relief and lowered the saddles a hair to get the action to .050" at the 12th fret. It was not touched since, except to make slight adjustments to the intonation.

Maybe it's still settling in? I don't know. I'm just curious about others experiences.

Thanks.

 

[Cagey]

The only trouble I've had with "Pro" necks over the years is a few that wouldn't relieve. All heavy profile parts, like boatnecks. Don't know if that matters, just an observation. I put 'em on the neck jig of doom and bent the snot out of them for several weeks, and got them to where they were usable. But, one of them came right back to flat. Other than that, I've never had a Pro neck move on me once it was set up, and I go through a lot of 'em here.

Modern Vintage and Total Vintage I would expect to move with the seasons.

 

[BigSteve22]

Thanks again Brother. Neck is a standard thin. I agree, old style construction is pretty dynamic as the seasons change. Maybe this was just an anomaly to file away for future reference. I'll post further if it happens again.

 

[vai777]

regardless of construction, all necks with move with the change in seasons

 

[Cagey]

Have you ever tried a "Warmoth Pro" construction neck? If not, you may be pleasantly surprised. They really don't move. The only downside to them is the truss rod design adds a little weight to the things (roughly 6 ounces by my lights), and there are those who say that changes the tone due to the change in inertia. Makes sense in theory, but it's impossible to prove one way or the other as you can't install a standard truss rod, test it for a while, then install the dual-action part to see if there's a difference. Then, even if you have two necks built of the same woods but with different truss rods, you don't know what effect the wood itself is having. It's pretty variable. Two parts made from the same tree can be surprisingly different due to varying density, grain orientation, moisture content, distance from the ground, age, etc.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Have to agree on the pro necks.  I've used several and they seem to be as solid as it gets.  You can pretty much do a basic setup and have faith that it will just stay there.

 

[TBurst Std]

The only trouble I've had with "Pro" necks over the years is a few that wouldn't relieve. All heavy profile parts, like boatnecks. Don't know if that matters, just an observation. I put 'em on the neck jig of doom and bent the snot out of them for several weeks, and got them to where they were usable. But, one of them came right back to flat. Other than that, I've never had a Pro neck move on me once it was set up, and I go through a lot of 'em here.

Modern Vintage and Total Vintage I would expect to move with the seasons.

I think I know one of those necks. We will see. Unfortunately I have been delayed in getting it back on the body, strung up, and set up.

 

[Strat Avenger]

My Vintage/Modern neck gave me some difficulty relieving but I managed to persuade it. 'First neck I've ever had that experience with.  A friend of mine had the same issue with a Chinese-made Ibanez. The only way I could get any relief outta that neck was to put some super heavy-gauge strings on it.

 

[Cagey]

The only way I could get any relief outta that neck was to put some super heavy-gauge strings on it.

That's how I fixed Tburst's neck. Put a set of 12s on it, then propped them up at the nut about a half inch or so, then tuned up to G. Strings were pulling at an angle, very strongly. I was surprised I didn't break anything. Let it sit that way for a week or 3, I can't remember. In any event, it pulled the thing right. Kept me from curb-stomping it, which is what Warmoth recommended.

Doesn't always work, though. The most recent one I tried to recurve I did on a neck jig where I bent the hell out of the thing and left it for a good 6 weeks. Sumbitch relaxed right back to where it was.

I still have one trick up my sleeve, though. I think I can teach it a lesson by baking it. I saw a video not long ago that I can't find now where you use a heavy beam, some spacers and clamps, then bake the thing in the oven at about 175 degrees for an hour. We'll see how that works out. My concern is that it may not bend evenly and we'll end up with a twist. Then, I'll have to get out the chainsaw...