stratamania
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 11,631
It's called a drum humanizer.
S
swarfrat
Guest
Ok, gulp - first time doing this. Here's a single guitar track recorded straight into the Zoom, using a tweaked version of MsCrunch. A while back when I switched to all fourths, I started playing 2 note chord melody as an exercise to learn my way around the shift, and I started doing this sort of thing with hymns, as they're some of the musical deepest grooves in my brain since early childhood. After a while I figured out that playing from such memories seems to exercise something that play/rewind transcribing doesn't. I still need to do more of that, hoping to with the Zoom. But it's really helped with harmonizing stuff out of my head on the fly.
https://soundcloud.com/bonesofwrath/wonderful-grace-of-jesus-guitar
It's supposed to have a harmonic piglet squeal at the end of the final ascending run before it drops. Which I can't seem to nail in any otherwise decent take.
https://soundcloud.com/bonesofwrath/wonderful-grace-of-jesus-guitar
It's supposed to have a harmonic piglet squeal at the end of the final ascending run before it drops. Which I can't seem to nail in any otherwise decent take.
S
swarfrat
Guest
Hah. The other thing I hope to accomplish here is to take what I've been doing with stripped down chord melody and apply it to supporting roles. For want of a better term I call it Supporting Lead Guitat. Donnie Barnes is a master, as whoever recorded the guitar for Steve Miller Band's Jungle Love.(Probably the best exampleI can think of at the moment)
Which means I need to have something to support. Actually after messing with it I think a amall multiteack with a click track should be in every guitar students hands
Which means I need to have something to support. Actually after messing with it I think a amall multiteack with a click track should be in every guitar students hands
My guitar students are always trying to get me to help con their mommies into buying them more stuff, so I always get the "what do I NEED?" question. And I am hugely fond of both cheap drum machines - they're a lot more fun - but mostly delay pedals, squeaky-clean DIGITAL delay pedals with a long delay - you WANT it to play back what you just played! All the Digitech "RPXX50" and "RPXX55" pedals have a 5 second delay, way adequate. The advantage of these over a metronome is that everything is working at once, you're learning harmony*, you're learning tone*... you're learning the secret to speed. Which is, that every note in a fast lick has to be played with it's proper duration. If you work on one lick, you can get one appallingly fast in a week - really! - but you speed up and slow down within the lick, so the "speed" is inapplicable in any other note grouping - you just have one fast lick.
With a delay, you can work on playing the exact same lick in a bunch of different locations, string groupings, NPS's... speaking of appalling, it's amazing how bad you suck when you first try to chase down some comprehensive speed by doing THAT stuff. But with a little work, it actually starts to teach you the 4-NPS vs. string-skipping parameters, alternate picking vs. "slip-picking" or "efficient" or whatever it's called this week. When I figured out my brain was incapable of some of that stuff, the delay pedal taught me how to use the Morsian cheat - if you just plain CAN'T make your head stick with very strict alternate picking, over 3 and 5 note patterns that get you backwards & inside out all the time - grab a note with your middle finger to get back to down-up-down-upland. Of course Morse doesn't use it to cheat, he uses it to be even more ridiculously-great. Dick. I use it to cheat.
You can pick up old weird Yamaha & Boss drum machines for $25, $30. There really hasn't been changes in the basic architecture of them for 20 years or more. And a Digitech RP150 used for $50 or $60 - the delay alone is gonna cost you twice that if you buy a "dedicated" delay-only Digitech "Hardwire" delay. They take the same "AudioDNA2" chip, stick it in a Hardwire pedal and program it to do 1/50th of what it does in the RP255 etc. Because stand-alone effects are "better".... With $450, you can buy enough Hardwire pedals to duplicate a $99 RP155! I think there are even some of those DNA2 chips in the new plastic RP's, you just want to NOT get the 100... 200.. 300 series, get the _50 or_55 ones.
I wouldn't be too surprised if them Axe-FXII's have some sort of delay in there, maybe. Did you see what they just released? Now, there's the NEW Axe-FXII ULTRA! And next year, the super-ultra! Then the Super-Duper ULTRA Plus Triple-Whoompie! Inevitable. Dicks. If I order an Axe-FxVII now, I'd have the money to buy it by the time they make it?
I've gone the "delay" thing mumplified by umpteens - a serious case of looperitis. I have the Boss VF-1 feeding a T.C. Electronics Ditto X2 and the RP250 feeding a Pigtronix Infinity and, Mr. Koltai made me a special 5-banger footswitch so I can keep the looper up top. Watching guitarists crawl around on the floor is pretty funny, except if YOU have to do it. And all feeding a 10-band mini-mixer, with the trusty Boss DR660 drum machine banging away. The good thing is, these loopers finally SOUND GOOD. I have a Boss RC20XL that sounded like crap unless you fed it a fully processed signal, and then you immediately get too many gain stages when you get circular = looping loops. And the Digitech loopers are like the Boss, they keep adding more features without fixing the basic 60's transistor-radio TONE of the innards of their base unit. Some looper features are pretty dumb, at least for me. Electro-Harmonix makes a big deal out of their half-speed feature, you can record a bass part at double-speed then drop it an octave with the 1/2 speederite. Ummm, I have like three or four pitch shifters... and the auto-quantize feature is basically so you don't ever have to work on timing?!? :icon_scratch:
*(Assuming your brain's engaged. Oops.)
With a delay, you can work on playing the exact same lick in a bunch of different locations, string groupings, NPS's... speaking of appalling, it's amazing how bad you suck when you first try to chase down some comprehensive speed by doing THAT stuff. But with a little work, it actually starts to teach you the 4-NPS vs. string-skipping parameters, alternate picking vs. "slip-picking" or "efficient" or whatever it's called this week. When I figured out my brain was incapable of some of that stuff, the delay pedal taught me how to use the Morsian cheat - if you just plain CAN'T make your head stick with very strict alternate picking, over 3 and 5 note patterns that get you backwards & inside out all the time - grab a note with your middle finger to get back to down-up-down-upland. Of course Morse doesn't use it to cheat, he uses it to be even more ridiculously-great. Dick. I use it to cheat.
You can pick up old weird Yamaha & Boss drum machines for $25, $30. There really hasn't been changes in the basic architecture of them for 20 years or more. And a Digitech RP150 used for $50 or $60 - the delay alone is gonna cost you twice that if you buy a "dedicated" delay-only Digitech "Hardwire" delay. They take the same "AudioDNA2" chip, stick it in a Hardwire pedal and program it to do 1/50th of what it does in the RP255 etc. Because stand-alone effects are "better".... With $450, you can buy enough Hardwire pedals to duplicate a $99 RP155! I think there are even some of those DNA2 chips in the new plastic RP's, you just want to NOT get the 100... 200.. 300 series, get the _50 or_55 ones.
I wouldn't be too surprised if them Axe-FXII's have some sort of delay in there, maybe. Did you see what they just released? Now, there's the NEW Axe-FXII ULTRA! And next year, the super-ultra! Then the Super-Duper ULTRA Plus Triple-Whoompie! Inevitable. Dicks. If I order an Axe-FxVII now, I'd have the money to buy it by the time they make it?
I've gone the "delay" thing mumplified by umpteens - a serious case of looperitis. I have the Boss VF-1 feeding a T.C. Electronics Ditto X2 and the RP250 feeding a Pigtronix Infinity and, Mr. Koltai made me a special 5-banger footswitch so I can keep the looper up top. Watching guitarists crawl around on the floor is pretty funny, except if YOU have to do it. And all feeding a 10-band mini-mixer, with the trusty Boss DR660 drum machine banging away. The good thing is, these loopers finally SOUND GOOD. I have a Boss RC20XL that sounded like crap unless you fed it a fully processed signal, and then you immediately get too many gain stages when you get circular = looping loops. And the Digitech loopers are like the Boss, they keep adding more features without fixing the basic 60's transistor-radio TONE of the innards of their base unit. Some looper features are pretty dumb, at least for me. Electro-Harmonix makes a big deal out of their half-speed feature, you can record a bass part at double-speed then drop it an octave with the 1/2 speederite. Ummm, I have like three or four pitch shifters... and the auto-quantize feature is basically so you don't ever have to work on timing?!? :icon_scratch:
*(Assuming your brain's engaged. Oops.)
S
swarfrat
Guest
The R24 has a drum machine in addition all the effects. That piece I linked was recorded with just a click. I found some patterns that work with it, but I didn't post it because I didn't want to bore everyone with 1 measure pattern repeating and I haven't learned the drum pattern sequencer yet. I'm working on that part of it now.
Honestly, I'm really pumped about this thing - it does all the things you were talking about plus record. And if start working with a teacher again I plan to lug it with me. Here, go practice this til you get it. I do think it's an extremely useful sketchpad even if you're not buying to record your shot at the moon attempt to make it big. Like I said - playing with the metronome is essential. Listening to what you just played with the metronome is even better. The faces you make listening to yourself play contain real emotion, unlike the ones you make while holding the giant slug.
Honestly, I'm really pumped about this thing - it does all the things you were talking about plus record. And if start working with a teacher again I plan to lug it with me. Here, go practice this til you get it. I do think it's an extremely useful sketchpad even if you're not buying to record your shot at the moon attempt to make it big. Like I said - playing with the metronome is essential. Listening to what you just played with the metronome is even better. The faces you make listening to yourself play contain real emotion, unlike the ones you make while holding the giant slug.
S
swarfrat
Guest
This thing rocks. Battery operation and built in mics mean i was able to record a scratch vocal track in my mobile isolation booth (car). Usually my free time is once my son is in bed, and bad Brian Johnson impressions in the next room isnt a great idea.
the effects are pretty good too
the effects are pretty good too
stratamania
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 11,631
Glad you are having fun with it and it's working out so well for you. :icon_thumright:
S
swarfrat
Guest
Yup. It's in Channel EQ/Pan settings.
Overall the thing is pretty snazzy. I picked mine up for $300 used, basically NIB. You can record 8 channels simulataneously, play back 24, but you can keep recording as many as you want and mix on the PC. It's also an interface/control surface, has 6 channels of phantom power, and one high z input for guitars.
The effects are limited to 1 insert effect algorithm at a time, which isn't explicitly clear in the manual (I recall trying to determine this before I bought), but one of the insert effects is an 8 channel compressor, so if you want to record an entire band rehearsal, you can do that and do some mild compression on the way in. (It's after the converters though, and it will record 24 bit, so I don't really see the point.)
The presets on guitar (and basses.. yikes I know people buy bass distortions, but does anyone actually use them??? whatever) are a bit excessive, but I've gotten some pretty usable sounds out of it. Enough that I sorta quit worrying about micing amps for the time being while I'm working on songs.
The track sequencer really is cool - you can loop patterns, wav files off a usb stick, or anything recorded on a track. So I'm working on a new song, still working out song structure and chords. So I lay down a scratch vocal against a click. Go back and record 16 bars of rhythm guitar. Loop that for verses in the track sequencer. It's an AABA song so the rhythm part in the sequencer goes xxA...............A...............xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxA...............
and it has a nice 16 bar hole to drop a bridge in.
Then I did the same thing with a bass track, and re-recorded a better working vocal now that I have pitch reference.
In addition to the insert effects, there are two send/return loops, one labeled "reverb", the other labeled "chorus" but the chorus includes some delays - so I can record insert effects wet (or dry) on guitar, use the "chorus" for my echo while monitoring and not print that.
For the price I got it, I'm thinking tell your kids skip the amp, buy a multitrack. Record your lessons. Record yourself. Listen to yourself. After you get done barfing, go back and practice it again. 24 track, 8 @ a time, 3 simultaneous effects, drum machine and loop sequencer that can fit in a backpack and run on batteries for $300. Can't beat that with a stick.
Overall the thing is pretty snazzy. I picked mine up for $300 used, basically NIB. You can record 8 channels simulataneously, play back 24, but you can keep recording as many as you want and mix on the PC. It's also an interface/control surface, has 6 channels of phantom power, and one high z input for guitars.
The effects are limited to 1 insert effect algorithm at a time, which isn't explicitly clear in the manual (I recall trying to determine this before I bought), but one of the insert effects is an 8 channel compressor, so if you want to record an entire band rehearsal, you can do that and do some mild compression on the way in. (It's after the converters though, and it will record 24 bit, so I don't really see the point.)
The presets on guitar (and basses.. yikes I know people buy bass distortions, but does anyone actually use them??? whatever) are a bit excessive, but I've gotten some pretty usable sounds out of it. Enough that I sorta quit worrying about micing amps for the time being while I'm working on songs.
The track sequencer really is cool - you can loop patterns, wav files off a usb stick, or anything recorded on a track. So I'm working on a new song, still working out song structure and chords. So I lay down a scratch vocal against a click. Go back and record 16 bars of rhythm guitar. Loop that for verses in the track sequencer. It's an AABA song so the rhythm part in the sequencer goes xxA...............A...............xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxA...............
and it has a nice 16 bar hole to drop a bridge in.
Then I did the same thing with a bass track, and re-recorded a better working vocal now that I have pitch reference.
In addition to the insert effects, there are two send/return loops, one labeled "reverb", the other labeled "chorus" but the chorus includes some delays - so I can record insert effects wet (or dry) on guitar, use the "chorus" for my echo while monitoring and not print that.
For the price I got it, I'm thinking tell your kids skip the amp, buy a multitrack. Record your lessons. Record yourself. Listen to yourself. After you get done barfing, go back and practice it again. 24 track, 8 @ a time, 3 simultaneous effects, drum machine and loop sequencer that can fit in a backpack and run on batteries for $300. Can't beat that with a stick.
S
swarfrat
Guest
Yeah. I'm not a singer. I make no pretense of it. But since instrumental music generally sucks unless you're one of the 0.01% virtuosos (and even they are a lot more listenable when supporting a song with an actual point other than "listen to how awesome I am")
So I'm playing my rhythm guitar when I realize, dangit I'm just flailing. I don't want to lock in a melody at this point, but I NEED the cadence of the lyrics down so I can make sure my drums and guitar support it. So I record the scratch vocal on headphones in my car at work with just a click.
My drum pattern was actually pretty much on. I was able to record a better supporting guitar part now.
But ooowieeeeeee the vocal "rap" was gong show bad. It starts drifting lower and lower and lower throughout the song. Now I need to chart it out and go try to weave some kind of for real melody through it. But hey, I'm taking a good faith effort at #3 (Dare to suck).
So I'm playing my rhythm guitar when I realize, dangit I'm just flailing. I don't want to lock in a melody at this point, but I NEED the cadence of the lyrics down so I can make sure my drums and guitar support it. So I record the scratch vocal on headphones in my car at work with just a click.
My drum pattern was actually pretty much on. I was able to record a better supporting guitar part now.
But ooowieeeeeee the vocal "rap" was gong show bad. It starts drifting lower and lower and lower throughout the song. Now I need to chart it out and go try to weave some kind of for real melody through it. But hey, I'm taking a good faith effort at #3 (Dare to suck).
S
swarfrat
Guest
Haha. This isn't the song I was just talking about, this is the first thing I recorded (multitrack). It's one of my son's favorite kids songs, and we rocked it up. You should see his little toddler butt start to wiggle and his head bob when I play it for him. Hey, I got a fan! (I can deal with the critics, my fan thinks I'm the most awesomest person ever)
https://soundcloud.com/bonesofwrath/butterfly-song
I'll skip all the apologies and explanations except to say the crickets are real, and the guitar is recorded with an external mic (not the built in).
https://soundcloud.com/bonesofwrath/butterfly-song
I'll skip all the apologies and explanations except to say the crickets are real, and the guitar is recorded with an external mic (not the built in).
S
swarfrat
Guest
Yeah, part of me wanted to go back and fix everything, and the other part of me was like screw it, I'm tired of messing with it right now. If I could do unlimited takes on vocal/acoustic like I can electric instruments, I might still be tracking it. If the kid is asleep, I can't record noise makers. If he's awake, he wants to be part of the recording process. When he wakes up, he wants to skip breakfast and run down the hall to the music room and play guitars. Every. Single. Morning.
S
swarfrat
Guest
Just found a really cool hack / reason to record dry. Dump obnoxious amounts of reverb on the guitar while you're tracking, but print dry. When you play back remove or cut the reverb back to less than you want (ie about right).
Presto. The obnoxious reverb really cuts back on the tendency to overplay
Presto. The obnoxious reverb really cuts back on the tendency to overplay
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
Not to take anything away from you, but I think that's a pretty typical scenario. Not necessarily the excess reverb, but any effects at all at any level. You always record dry, that way you can re-amp if you want to, add amps, change cabs, add sfx, etc.
Run it how you want while tracking, even record it on another track if you'd like, but always record a dry track you can dink around with later.
How do you suppose they "remaster" tunes? They've got the original work uneffected.
Run it how you want while tracking, even record it on another track if you'd like, but always record a dry track you can dink around with later.
How do you suppose they "remaster" tunes? They've got the original work uneffected.
S
swarfrat
Guest
Yeah, I know about recording dry for flexibility. What was novel was using WAY TOO MUCH reverb while tracking to alter your playing.
Similar threads
- Locked
