So what would this sound like?

[thx712517]

I've been playing around with the body and neck builder quite a lot lately, and I was curious as to opinions on how a particular combination would sound. A Tele-style maple neck with the 24 3/4" conversion, a chambered alder body, TOM bridge, and a pair of SD P90s. Thoughts? Comments?

I like the general shape of the Telecaster, I like the idea of the chambered body (and the lighter weight!), I love single coil pickups over humbuckers, and the simpler the bridge/tailpiece combo the better. I've got a Gretsch with a Bigsby for when I want to have fun changing strings.

 

[sixstringsamurai]

Sounds like a hellacious rock and roll machine to me....BUILD IT!!!!!
:headbang1:

 

[Cagey]

I agree with Mr. Samurai - if you build it, they will come. I was never a fan a Teles until a few years ago - now I've got 4. Fine machines. Comfortable in every regard, eminently playable and will take any mod you can throw at them. Helluva platform.

I'm not sure about the P-90 thing, though. I've never been much of a fan. They don't sound like single coils, but they're noisy as hell. They also don't sound like humbuckers, but they're noisy as hell. No reward there, either. I mean, I'll take some punishment if there's an upside, but I can't find it with those things. It's a unique sound, but sort of an acquired taste, I guess.

 

[sixstringsamurai]

I would even venture to suggest a Mini Hum in the neck, and traditional single in the bridge.
Then you can throw one of these little beauties with a TOM on it

 

[bagman67]

Don't listen to Cagey, he's a flaming hum-o-phobe. 




Well, do listen to Cagey, since he's tremendously knowledgeable and not often wrong, when it comes to underlying facts.  And opinions are by their nature subjective, and that's what can make a great flame-war.  But anyway, Cagey's a flaming hum-o-phobe, so you won't hear a kind word about traditional P90's or Strat or Tele single-coils.  P90's do indeed suffer from 60-cycle hum, but if that's a problem you're already committed to having, I think you could get some excellent rock-n-roll-age out of your contemplated build. 


As far as WHICH noisy, unacceptable P90's to use, I have a pair of Roadhouse True Blue P90's installed in my Hog, and they are my favorite pickups of all my guitars.  I love, love, LOVE them.  Plus they were hand-made by our brother on the board, Ken, aka TroubledTreble.

 

[thx712517]

Any video of that P90'd guitar of yours? Looks impressive.

 

[Cagey]

It's true - I am a hum-o-phobe. In my defense, I have to say I live in an incredibly noisy environment, electrically. Even humbuckers have been known to hum when fired up around here if the wiring isn't up to par. Too many ballasts in fluorescent fixtures (16) and anywhere between 3 to 7 computers ticking away, plus the normal noise from fridges, A/C units, phones and all manner of wall wart. Crank up anything that's sensitive enough to pick up EMI, and it's tickled to death. Even a short length of wire that isn't shielded turns into a black hole for EMI, and the amp happily makes it painfully obvious.

I'm not against P-90s, although I don't have anything with them in it for obvious reasons. Last guitar I had here with them in it was an old Gibson LPS, and it was miserable. But, I did just receive an order from Bill & Becky that included an L-609, so we'll see how that works out. Supposed to be a refined version of a P-90, sans noise. I also ordered a couple L-600s, to see what those are like. I'm gonna put 'em in the L5S week after next.

 

[Day-mun]

P-Rails for a happy medium?

 

[Cagey]

No, because when you switch to the P or the Rail alone, it's a single coil.

 

[DustyCat]

I've got a pair of Phat Cats (P-90's) in a VIP, had them since about a year ago.
I run them through a 55 watt tube amp (1x12 combo) with 2x12 avatar cab (V30's I ordered them with) so you know the signal is not going to be *quiet*, but as for hum...ummm  :icon_scratch: I don't ever recall it being a problem when overdriving the amp (its got a british voiced channel), although a thought did cross my mind as to what got into my old BOSS SD-1 when I dusted it off recently, but then again I haven't used it in years and when I did it was with strat loaded with EMG SA's with the Fat Boost dimed and busted off.

If you like squeal with your hum, you would be better off trying some Wide Range pickups with a little bit of gain :cool01:

 

[Day-mun]

No, because when you switch to the P or the Rail alone, it's a single coil.

Exactly my point; He could have his SC hum and cancel it, too. -Plus, wide/flat SC's sound cool! (Check out Blackberry Smoke's rhythm guitar player to get a feel for that soap-bar tone I'm talkin' about!)

I, personally, would wanna set 'em up with push-pulls; the standard down position being HB, and the up selection being P-90; from what I heard, the rail SC isn't really worth a hoot when it comes to tone, and not worthy of getting a three-way switch to enable that function.

-Just a thought.

 

[thx712517]

Let's take another combination I had in mind. Chambered alder Tele body, maple boat neck, 3-barrel bridge and some Broadcaster style Tele pickups. Looking for something light, a touch of warmth/presence, but still Telecaster.

 

[Day-mun]

Uh-Oh! KG ain't gonna like that! Single coils getting installed instead of ripped out and replaced? -Outrageous!  :icon_jokercolor:

I say put in those SC's and  :rock-on:

I am 100% behind you on the boatneck! Sweetest back profile I have gotten from Warmoth so far! (-They are all really cool; it's just that the boat is my favorite!)  :icon_thumright:

Chambered bodies are great! another thumbs-up!  :icon_thumright:

 

[thx712517]

How's the Warmoth satin finish vs gloss? I've got a Classic Vibe that's polyester gloss and I'm not too big a fan of the feel. I liked the finish on my American Special Strat, some kind of satin polyurethane. The Warmoth satin looks like a bare neck.

 

[Cagey]

Uh-Oh! KG ain't gonna like that! Single coils getting installed instead of ripped out and replaced? -Outrageous!  :icon_jokercolor:

Doesn't matter what I like - it's for others to live with if they choose.

I like the sound of single coils, I just don't like noise and hum.

 

[thx712517]

After lots of cogitation, I think this is what I've come up with as far as the build I'd like to do. Goal is for a lighter weight Telecaster (my current one weighs 8.4 lbs) that's comfortable to play and sounds good - like a 1950s kind of good - when played through a Vox AC4TV.

Body
Warmoth: Chambered alder body with alder top, front rout, tummy cut, 7/8" jack rout, vintage Tele bridge holes. $287 for body + ($185 for alpine white or gloss black) or ($210 for Lake Placid Blue) + shipping

Guard
Warmoth vintage 5-hole pick guard, Tele neck rout with holes. $25 for gloss black or white.

Strap buttons
Warmoth: Standard strap buttons, chrome. $3 + shipping.

String ferrules
Warmoth: Chrome ferrules, $0.84 X 6 ($5.04) + shipping

Neck plate
Callaham stainless high luster neck plate. $30, + $1.75 for screws, + shipping.

Tuners
Gotoh vintage tuners, 11/32". $35 + shipping.

Jack plate
Stewmac: Electrosocket jack mount, silver. $8.63 + shipping.

Neck
Warmoth: One piece maple neck. 1-11/16" nut, Graphtech Tusq XL. 21 frets. 9.5" radius. Boatneck profile. Stainless steel medium jumbo frets (6105?). 11/32" tuner holes. In vintage tint gloss: $347 + shipping. Clear gloss: $327 + shipping.

Bridge
Callaham bridge: Vintage T bridge with three brass enhanced vintage compensated saddles. $125 + shipping.

Control plate
Acme Guitar Works: Pre-wired 50s style 3-way control. $79.99 + shipping.

Pickups
Bill & Becky Lawrence: Wilde Keystone Deluxe T set, $72 + shipping.

Strings
Dunlop: 9-42 nickel plated, $5.99 + tax.


Thoughts? Comments? Critique? Anything I'm forgetting?

 

[Cagey]

I think I'd get DangerousR6 (Doug) to make me a custom engraved neck plate a million times before I'd give Callaham $30 for a blank. Also, this is a Tele. The controls for them are about as simple as simple gets. A pre-wired plate isn't getting you anything - half or more of the job is hooking up the pickups and output jack, which they're not going to (can't) do. So... what exactly are you getting for $80 there? $20 worth of parts and $3 worth of labor?

Other than that, I'd say go.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Well, the only other thing to mention is Ken's Roadhouse P80's.  What are they?  P90 style pickups with magnetic pole pieces instead of the magnets of a normal P90.  Your classic single coils (and WRHB's) had magnetic pole pieces and it gives them a lot of that chime factor.  So your P80 is like a single coil/P90 hybrid.  Very cool for a neck pickup.  Also Ken has some crazy mojo with how he winds things, so you get that going for you as well.
Patrick

 

[thx712517]

Okay. So a neck plate from DangerousR6 - just send an IM? Website?

I've never soldered before, never assembled a guitar before. I guess I could wuss out and fob it all off on a luthier to put it together or I could give it a shot myself. Are 250K pots fine, or bump up to 500K? 47 or 22 capacitor? Looking for a clean solid sound that can get dirty when the volume goes way up. I usually play with the tone rolled down a bit on my current CV50 to get some warmth out of the neck.

 

[Cagey]

Doug's profile is here, and there are links there you can use to PM/Email him. Or, just look around the 'board. He's got about a jillion posts, having been here a million years. He's a well-liked and well-respected builder/player/machinist/member, and he'll take good care of you. He's done a lot of work for me, and it's always first-rate.

I wouldn't call giving the assembly/setup work to a pro "wussing out". You know what your skills are and how much of a chance you want to take with what you're planning. As much as I think I know about plumbing, I don't do it. I hire plumbers. They have the experience and the tools to do things right.

As for pots, I always use 500K log taper parts. 250K parts tend to load things just a tad, so you lose a bit. You can always do what everybody should do - back the tone pot down a touch to get rid of any high end you don't want. But, if you don't have the high end in the first place because you used soft woods, mumbly pickups, or too much control load, you can't do anything to get it back. It's just not there.