So what did I do wrong?

[Triaxis]

Hi, thanks for reading.  I recently completed a Warmoth build:

Alder Soloist body with a satin clear finish.
Birdseye maple neck with an Indian Rosewood fretboard.
Floyd Rose bridge.
Bill Lawrence XL500 in the bridge, Duncan Hotrail in the neck.

My problem with the guitar is that it sounds, really..  trebley and thin.  In comparison my other guitar is a Peavey Wolfgang Special and I absolutely love its tone, it's got a rich, deep sound. You can tell even when it's unplugged that it's going to sound good plugged in.  I didn't expect they would sound alike of course but they're radically different.  I'm not sure what the body of the Wolfgang was made from, ash or basswood.

So I guess my question is, how can I fatten up my projects tone?  Do I 'need' a different body? Maybe a Duncan Custom Custom in the bridge?  I hear that model is closest to what's in the Wolfgangs.  Any help is appreciated.

 

[Dan025]

yeah the l500xl is a weird pup.. tons of inductance, tons of output, put also can clean up and have tons of presence because of the ceramic magnets and hard stainless steel blades. it might need a tone control but use a small capacitor value or put a small resistor in the tone circuit, like 10-25k so it never goes all the way down. i'm not sure it's the pickup to use for warmth anyway it just gets dark pretty quick... maybe an l500l or l500c as long as you have a tone control.

maybe a duncan custom custom would better suit your needs.

 

[swarfrat]

The floyd isn't helping any, but just how thin are we talking about? Both of those pickups are pretty hot - I'm  wondering if maybe you're talking about broken wire in a pickup - but both of them?

 

[Dan025]

another question is what strings? gonig from 9's to 10's can make a difference.

 

[Triaxis]

@DanO No tone control and I'm using 09's, just like with the Wolfgang. I'm new to actually building a guitar, what does the capacitor or resistor actually do?  Where in the chain would it go?

@swarfrat - It just as seems as soon as I switch from the Wolfgang to my "N4-Soloist" I lose any bottom I had.

 

[Cagey]

Depending on how things are wired, it's possible there could be a phasing issue with the pickups. Tough to say without more detail.

 

[Dan025]

ok the cap is part of the tone control (which you dont have). an cap in an ac circuit passes high frequencies, in a guitar tone circuit you pass the highs to ground taking them out of the signal... i suggested a small resistor so the tone assuming you had one wouldn't reach zero and become overly muddy from the high inductance of the pickup, this is part of the fender "grease bucket" tone and i like it.

there are calculations for all of this but i would have to look it up because i don't use them often but the jist of it is that the pickup is an inductor and it's impedance goes up with pitch. a capacitors impedance goes down as pitch goes up, since the capacitor is a path to ground when the two impedance values meet the output is down 3db and will drop sharply above that. the volume pot impedance also works into this. there is also a resonant frequency where there is a peak in output. because the inductance is so high on that pickup you need to take that into consideration when selecting other componants if you add a tone control. the inductance is likely 2-4 times what average humbucker guitar is so the cap should be 1/4-1/2 the size, like maybe a .1uf to a .33uf at the absolute very most but i'd choose a .15uf cap or .22uf cap with a 20k resistor as a starting point. if you add the resistor you can get away with a little more cap and it should either go in line between the cap and pot or replace the jumper from the volume pot to the tone pot.

you probably have a pretty hard piece of alder, mixed with the a steel floyd rose. the wolfgang special might have a cheaper brass or zinc version. then the frets, if they are stainless and the l500 pickup with it's ceramic magnets can be putting things over the edge with no tone circuit.

if you are against adding a tone control and i totally understand that, using 10's will make things a little better if there is too much brightness. 10.5's is about as thick as you might want to go. i know people swear by 11's and i used to as well but light strings sustain better (seriously this is proven and contrary to common wisdom) are brighter and if the trem is stable they can intonate better due to less harmonic stretch. you can also change the volume pot, or alter it's effective value. since the pickup inductance causes the impedance to go up with pitch you can cut highs with lower resistance to ground, no cap needed. if you have a mega ohm pot value you can bring it down a bit. 250k might be too low but it might not be. 500k is usually suggested for humbuckers and some use 1meg for high output pup's like you have but if it's too bright this is an area you can change, recommendations don't always work for everyone.

tell us what pots you have. also if you have an out of phase issue it can make things thin. do both pickups have 4-wire cables? and how are they wired? give a little information and we'll see where you can make improvements.

 

[line6man]

there are calculations for all of this but i would have to look it up because i don't use them often but the jist of it is that the pickup is an inductor and it's impedance goes up with pitch.

Don't bother with any formulas. As you said, there is not just a real part, but also a complex part to the impedance of a pickup. Figure out what happens at one frequency, and everything goes out the window when that frequency changes. Inductance itself varies with frequency, and it can be very difficult to obtain a proper measure of the parasitic capacitance of the coil to know how that counters the inductive Reactance.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Ok, simple stuff to try first:

1. Switch the two wires that are soldered to the output jack and try it again. If it's worse, change them back.

If that doesn't fix it, try this:

2. Switch the green and black wires from the Hot Rails. The bare wire still goes to ground.

 

[Dan025]

^^ right. as line6man said you don't really need the calculations. once there is a starting point you only need a basic understanding to know how to change things.

calculations assume "ideal" componants and you can add in things to account for the other parameters but some if these thins are super hard to measure. so the calculations only get a ballpark anyway. that might be good enough for a guitar but everyones taste differs so it can all become irrelevant.