Shoulders on Warmoth Strat necks - too thick for small hands?

[burgundy]

Hi. I've never modified a guitar before so I could really do with some advice, as it's all kind of mystifying.. and, you know, it's hard to find a Warmoth/USACG/Musikraft neck to try out for myself as the shops don't really sell them.

I'm replacing the neck on my AmStd Strat because I have fairly small hands and find the fretboard too broad for me to play as fluidly as I could with a narrower neck. The back contour (Modern C) I find comfortable though, and doesn't seem too deep really - it's just the width that holds me back. At least that's how it seems to me.

So I'm looking at having a maple neck made up by Warmoth with the 1 5/8 nut, in the Standard Thin. But I've noticed that where other 'C' necks start to slope pretty much immediately, which I take to be an aid to pivoting smoothly and comfortably around the neck, the Warmoth necks all have these more pronounced shoulders. Looks more like a 'U' shape than a 'C'.

So the question is just whether anyone feels like this would be an issue, or if the width drop makes up for this extra chunkiness? Does anyone really notice the extra shoulders on their Warmoths as opposed to other Strats? I don't want a super-skinny Vai-style neck, I mostly play blues and older rock styles, Gilmour, Knopfler, SRV etc., but I want to be able to manouevre around as quickly and smoothly as possible without too much wood jutting into my hand, so I'm not just swapping one impediment for another.

I'd be really grateful if anyone could share some experience or insight on this.

 

[stratamania]

I guess you are looking at the diagram here

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/necks/backcontours.aspx

The standard thin is the closest to the modern C but the shoulders on the diagram seem to me more pronounced than the standard thin I have actually is.

I also have a Malmsteen strat from Fender which is a C shape and another Fender which is U shape. I also have an Ibanez Jem which I find too thin and is also 1 11/16 and after a finger issue a couple of years back I barely play it. My Hamer is close to a C. I adjust to them all quite well but on some play differently. But the Ibanez may be looking for a new home.  I didn't have this before the finger issue but since then it's become important.

Personally I think the standard thin with the 1 5/8 with a good set up will be fine.

 

[ORCRiST]

Yeah, Standard Thin should be just fine for you.  I prefer my necks to be on the thinner side because I have smaller hands (although Ibanez-type necks are a little too thin for me), I have a Jackson with a thinner neck that I love, but my hand will get fatigued over time as there's just not enough 'meat' for long-term comfort but plays very fast. I'm very happy with the standard thin I got for my strat - to me it feels 'just right' (mine has a 1-11/16th" nut).

HTH.

 

[Stratmeup]

I just went through this same experience myself. As far as I know, I have the world's smallest hands, and even I found the standard thin to be too thin. (but not unplayable, it was actually pretty close)

I sold the standard thin neck and bought a 1-5/8" '59 roundback, thinking it would be closer to my original '79 Schecter/Warmoth. This neck was  way too fat for me.  (although not outrageous, similar to Gibson necks) So I sent it to haywire guitars and had him shave and reshape the neck to something approaching a Peavey Wolfgang neck.

If I had to do it again, I'd look at either the Wolfgang or the SRV asymmetrical profile. Really comfortable, and not too thin or thick.

If you want to get a sense of what this feels like, go to your local Peavey dealer, and play an HPspecial USA for a few minutes, if they have one.

 

[Grubb Puppy]

I've had good luck with the vintage modern one piece maple necks.  The shoulder taper starts right at the frets rather than 1/8th inch below like it does on a two piece neck.  I just wish I could get one for a Mustang body!
Robert

 

[burgundy]

Hey, thanks for the replies everyone.

I wasn't going by the diagrams, I've seen a few pictures here and there of Warmoth Strat necks that seem to show this prominent shoulder - one thread on this forum for example where this guy was comparing a Fender to a Warmoth, I'll attach the pics. It's hard I know to figure out just from looking at photos how something'll feel but that seems like the only option with these mail order necks..

It's a shame because I can kind of see how maybe the shoulders would help grip for bends and stuff if they were really smooth and not too prominent, but overall I imagine they could 'trip up' the hand when trying to move around smoothly at speed. The alternative is USACG but I really don't want the goofy headstock and I gather they don't do 1 5/8 nut widths.

And now I gather some people think the Standard Thin is just too slim to fill the palm even of small hands? Hmm. Seems like the opposite of ergonomic..? To have a neck that doesn't support your hand but gets in the way at the edges? I really want to be wrong about this because I really like the options available from Warmoth necks, and they generally have a good reputation for quality.

 

[burgundy]

here are some other pics:

 

[Cagey]

And now I gather some people think the Standard Thin is just too slim to fill the palm even of small hands? Hmm. Seems like the opposite of ergonomic..? To have a neck that doesn't support your hand but gets in the way at the edges? I really want to be wrong about this because I really like the options available from Warmoth necks, and they generally have a good reputation for quality.

I don't have small hands. More like piano hands, but not quite that long-fingered, just thin. Anyway, measuring from the tip of my thumb to the tip of my pinky when I have the hand splayed is just shy of 9".

I play almost exclusively Standard Thin necks, 1 11/16" wide at the nut. Very comfy for me. Certainly doesn't fill my palm by any stretch of the imagination. I wouldn't like it if they did; my palm isn't supposed to be filled. I use my thumb for support behind the neck.

They also don't cause cramps unless I don't practice enough.

I also do a lot of neck work, guitar building and setups here. Most of them don't give me much trouble. So, my conclusion is it's playing style more than the neck. I will say, though, that consistency is a Good Thing. You don't want to move from one neck to another if you don't have to. Small differences are noticeable.

 

[burgundy]

Hmm perhaps I should add that I spend a fair amount of time with my thumb over the other side of the neck (hence the search for a narrower fretboard width). Not exclusively, but certainly quite a lot, helps me grip for precise movements and to sound the bottom E. I guess that's why I have this concern about the shoulders, that they would jut into the side of my thumb/fingers too much and be uncomfortable or slow me down. Is the Standard Thin much flatter than a regular C Strat? Seems like a 'U' shape would also be a better fit for larger hands when gripping the neck with the thumb over, as well as the shoulders thing.

 

[Cagey]

Is the Standard Thin much flatter than a regular C Strat? Seems like a 'U' shape would also be a better fit for larger hands when gripping the neck with the thumb over, as well as the shoulders thing.

It's been quite a while since I've played a regular Fender Strat, and I'm not as sensitive to profile/contour as some, so I can't really say. I do remember that when I got my first Warmoth neck, I was moving from an AmStd Fender Strat neck and had no problems whatsoever. So, I'd say the Standard Thin is much like a AmStd Fender Strat neck. Somebody else could probably answer that better than I can at this point.

 

[stratamania]

Thumb over the neck will work on a standard thin similar to a C shape Stratocaster. It's also one of the reasons I go for 1 5/8.

I do it on a C and U shape Strat, I find it easier on the C, which you can see to the left with a family of giraffes.

 

[burgundy]

Thanks again for the replies. Does anyone have any profile/angle shots of their Standard Thin necks? That would really be great. People seem to feel quite differently about them - even the two photo sets I posted look completely different, although they're notionally the same, so I'm still kind of unsure about what to expect a Standard Thin to be like.

 

[stratamania]

There are some pics of my standard thin in my build thread.  Not sure if they will show you what you want.

http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=22445.0

I will keep adding photos to it and have just been doing some neck work so I will see what I can add.

 

[mystique1]

It's been quite a while since I've played a regular Fender Strat, and I'm not as sensitive to profile/contour as some, so I can't really say. I do remember that when I got my first Warmoth neck, I was moving from an AmStd Fender Strat neck and had no problems whatsoever. So, I'd say the Standard Thin is much like a AmStd Fender Strat neck. Somebody else could probably answer that better than I can at this point.

Yeh I agree with this. I played a Fender Strat Plus and various Am Stds for over 20 years, but made the switch to a Warmoth Std Thin 11 months ago. I'd say the Warmoth ST is a little bit thinner than an Am Std neck, but not by much, and the shoulder thing didn't come into it for me at all as I didn't notice much difference. I did try a 59 Roundback which was thicker, but much prefer the Std Thin option. I'm 6' 2" tall with fairly big hands I should add.

 

[tangent]

I'd say the Warmoth ST is a little bit thinner than an Am Std neck, but not by much, and the shoulder thing didn't come into it for me at all as I didn't notice much difference.

That is my experience also, my Am. std strat neck feels just slightly thicker than a warmoth standard thin profile. 

I have long thin fingers and find warmoth standard thin with 1.75 nut most comfortable.  Guitars with 1.625  nut are uncomfortable for me unless they have a thicker profile (and even then nowhere near as comfortable as a 1.75 or 1.6825 nut width), so I would guess standard thin with 1.625 will probably be a good fit if you have smaller hands and find the fender necks a bit too chunky.

Keep in mind that warmoth doesn't roll the fretboard edges, dress the fret ends or level/crown the frets.. so you will have to do those things yourself or pay someone else to do them in order to bring the feel/playability in line with a fender usa neck.

 

[hannaugh]

Just my two cents here.  I have small hands - small, girly, child-sized hands with short fingers, and I've come to these conclusions:

1) Scale length is important.  I can play songs that have a wide fret stretch more easily on a Gibson scale or Mustang/Jag scale than I can on a Strat.  There are some riffs I simply cannot play or cannot play comfortably enough for it to sound decent on a regular Strat scale. 

2) Fretboard width is important.  It doesn't really make it impossible for me to play certain things, but it definitely slows me down.  There is an ergonomics concern you have to worry about, which is that if your pinky is shorter or the same length as the width of your fretboard, you may have to turn or bend your wrist a bit to fret notes on the low E and A strings.  Ideally your wrist should stay as straight as possible when you're playing to help prevent carpal tunnel and joint problems. 

3) While you don't necessarily want a huge contour, it's not as big of a hindrance as the previous two factors.  If you look at your hand while you're playing and the air that is between your palm and the neck, there should be quite a bit there.  It's really more of a matter of personal taste that stems from how quickly your hand gets tired, if you use your thumb to mute your low E, etc.  I have two standard thin necks that I like, but I just got a Wolfgang on my new LP, and I have a feeling my hand won't get as tired when I'm playing barre chords with that thicker neck.  I've played a Clapton in the past that I liked as well. 

 

[mystique1]

Keep in mind that warmoth doesn't roll the fretboard edges, dress the fret ends or level/crown the frets.. so you will have to do those things yourself or pay someone else to do them in order to bring the feel/playability in line with a fender usa neck.

Fender USA necks don't have the frets levelled or crowned either. I've had 5 necks from Warmoth and each has been buzz free with an acceptably low action. Every Fender I've ever owned needed some fret work to achieve a similar action. True, Fender dress the fret ends, but I've never encountered any sharpness with Warmoths either. Not sure if Warmoth are more careful when installing their frets, or if the 10-16" compound radius I've had on all my Warmoths has made the difference with the buzz free playability.