SG Vol & 3-Way Operation

[disaster]

So I'm bummed.  I just bought a new SG with the traditional 2 HB, 2 Vol, 2 Tone, & 3-way switch.  Just like I wanted. :toothy12:  But I'm confused.  If I turn either Vol knob all the way down (Off), the 2nd Vol knob at say 1/2 Volume, & put the 3-way in the center position (both pick-ups combined) I get no output.

After drawing a representative circuit diagram I find that's what I should have expected.  Either Vol knob turned all the way down will disable both pickup outputs with the 3-way switch in the center position.  I played an SG as a kid back when they were still novel.  I also played a Les Paul or 2 from the same era.  I don't remember the Vol & 3-Way switch working this way, but I'm ancient now & maybe they did.  Maybe I never tried this combination way back when.

Anyway I'm bummed to find this out.  Does anyone know of a way to prevent this situation?  I'm thinking a diode at both inputs to the 3-way, but this is a 0.7 V drop in the signal path & the attenuation may be too much.  I don't know if germanium diodes are still available (0.2V drop instead of 0.7V).  Any other ideas?

Or am I just suffering from reality cramps? :binkybaby:

Thanks.

 

[tfarny]

Swap the inputs and the outputs on the volume pot lugs and they will become totally independent of each other like a Jazz bass. But what you describe is the SOP for Gibson guitars.
http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Electronics/Switches/i-4000/i-4000_4.html
That whole free pdf is really informative and well written about basic guitar wiring, actually.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Swap the inputs and the outputs on the volume pot lugs and they will become totally independent of each other like a Jazz bass.

Ditto.  My last wiring job, I wired like that accidentally.  2 vol, 3-way toggle, master tone.  In the middle position, either volume acted like a master volume.  A swap of the in/out on the volume pots fixed it.

 

[erogenousjones17]

Hey! I was equally bummed when I had my LPS wired up and found out it did the same thing! What I didn't know was that there was another way of doing things. Guess what I'll be doing this weekend...

 

[-CB-]

When you swap the input and middle wire on each volume pot, make sure you also move the capacitor, so it connects to the "hot" wire of the pickup, not the output of the volume pot.  If you dont, when you roll down the volume and manipulate the tone control you'll get huge volume shifts.

 

[drewfx]

My question has always been, "Why does Gibson (still) wire them that way?". Is there some advantage I'm not aware of?

drewfx

 

[-CB-]

1.  They feel the tone is better
2.  You can do some neat tricks with tone that way
3.  I agree with them, but didn't always.

I used to think along the lines you do.  Then I discovered this trick - go full treble on the neck pickup, full volume too.  Use both pickups and use the bridge pickup's tone control to roll off some highs.  Now roll the volume part way down on the bridge pickup.  Finagle and play with the volume and tone on the bridge pickups a little, and you'll soon find a really sweet toned place that is bright, but not over the top, yet full in the mids and upper mids.  You cant do that with the alternate wiring.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Plus if playing in the middle postion, you can roll both down with one knob but the flip of the switch shows either in what position that knob is in.

 

[disaster]

Cool.  Nice suggestion.  I'll give the re-wiring a go.

Thanks.  :blob7:

 

[Dan025]

there is no perfect solution here,
reversing the pickup wiring varies the pickup load with volume level and may cause things to get muddy at low volumes, maybe jumping the in to the out with a small cap will help but might interfere with the tecnique cb pointed out just a bit.
also with the standard setup using the wiper as the out noise is cut out with low volume levels as the output is grounded reversing it keeps the noise about the same. shielding, stage position and cable routing become more important if you use the lower volume levels.

one solutions is active electronics, yuk batteries!   :sad1: :tard:

the standard gibson wiring will reduce the volume of the whole guitar for either volume control hence the need for a 3-way in the first place but if both volumes have only a subtle difference between each other especially between 6 and 8 on the volume there is some mixing going on and new sounds can be found especially by messing with the tone controls. not quite as versatile as the popular reverse pot wiring mod but lack the drawbacks

that said i dont like to play at low volumes anyway so maybe the drawbacks of reverse wiring on the volume is a non issue :-\

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

one solutions is active electronics, yuk batteries!   :sad1: :tard:

I often hear this complaint of actives from people.  No comment on the sound, just that they don't want to mess with the batteries.  Meanwhile they are playing through a wireless which ain't exactly hardwired or solar powered, and never have spare tubes handy, but "I don't want the hassle of batteries."

 

[Dan025]

well i also don't know of a active system that has two volumes on the market. i've thought about building a small amp into my guitars that could do this but sometimes the quirks of passive electronics make things more interesting.

 

[richship]

well i also don't know of a active system that has two volumes on the market.

You can wire EMGs with two volumes.