I ordered my Warmoth Strat, (Custom Build), at the beginning of November 2012 and received it just after Christmas. First gig I did with it was New Years Eve and I've used it every weekend since. I'm still having minor tuning problems with it, and retune a heck of a lot more (8-10 times per gig), than I did with my Fenders. They just usually needed a tune up at the start, and at the break of every gig. Strange thing is, the Warmoth usually goes slightly sharp. I've cut the nut slots with Stewart McDonald files, and have Graphtech Tusq string trees so it can't be those. The truss rod is adjusted to Fender specs, as are the pickup heights and action. My Warmoth is a hardtail with Gotoh SG38 tuners. I'm wondering is it just a matter of the wood, which prior to November last year were just planks, settling into their new shapes as a guitar neck and body?
Settling in time?
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Kostas
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That's a reason. The luthier who assembles and does all the tweaking in my guitars keeps them for three days after the assembling and keeps checking & adjusting the truss rod. Two of my three Warmoths needed a slight adjustment after a few months in the beginning, the other is still the same after 5 years!mystique1 said:
My guitars go sharper sometimes too. There are many factors affecting tuning (not counting the setup) like weather, the position a guitar is placed (even in the case) etc.
Patrick from Davis
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Most of the time it will take a little bit to settle in, the wood is now under a 100 lbs of stress or so at all times now. However, tuning issues are not really a problem with this, and frequently turn out to be issues with the nut. There isn't too much to it, but getting it correct is always fun, not really. The strings commonly bind up on the edge of the nut that is facing the tuning posts. The problems happen if it is a 90 degree edge. It should slope down gradually a bit there to avoid this. Also I have found that even with the files, the fines from the nut material like to get stuck in the nut. This causes all kinds of issues. I take the next size smaller file, make sure it is clean, and run it through the slot once to try and clear everything out. I don't try to remove more of the nut, just gunk that might have decided to stay behind in the slot. Finally, a little silicone oil/graphite from a pencil can help loosen things up.
Patrick
Patrick
Patrick from Davis
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Also, I forgot because I have been using locking tuners for quite a while, if there are a lot of wraps of string on the tuner, it can cause issues with tuning.
Patrick
Patrick
I've got a Graphtech Tusq nut that I'm going to install at the next string change. I had locking tuners on my old Strat Plus and was never crazy about them although they held tune well enough. The regular tuners on my Am Std Strat were just as good and quicker to change strings with which is why I went with the Gotoh SG38s. Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on those?
Almost all tuning problems are caused by too-tight nut slots, assuming you know how to string it up and to set your trem. Do you ever hear a "ping" or tick as you tune upwards? That's the string sticking in the slot and releasing. A graphite nut can still be too tight, grabbing the strings along the side. Take it in to a quality tech or get a set of nut files (warmoth sells good ones) and read up on the process.
KaiserSoze
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I'd give it a bit of time. I struggled with my Warmoth build for a couple months and had several ghost-in-the-machine type things going on in the neck that were frustrating, mainly to do with relief and tuning. The neck would just not cooperate. After several months and some fine-tuning on the nut, the neck is very stable and plays really well. So its either just settled in or is just overjoyed to be played by a person of my caliber. Either way I'm pleased and I love playing the thing.
And I still love the Roadhouse neck humbucker btw....
And I still love the Roadhouse neck humbucker btw....
Cagey
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In order for a string to sharp, it has to somehow increase in tension. That's tough to do with a hardtail. If you had an old six-point Fender wanger bridge, I'd say "whaddaya expect?" But, that's not the case here. So, what you have to ask yourself is: how are those strings getting tighter? Doesn't make sense.
Let's dismiss magic, just for fun. What else would cause the strings to get tighter?
Well, if the string hangs up in the nut slot or at the bridge, string tree, or tuner it can end up either tighter or looser after being stretched. So, the solution would seem to involve getting rid of hangup points. The nut is a pretty common failure point, as are string trees. Not so much saddles, but they can be bitches, too. Graphtech solves most of those problems, properly applied.
But, all the above are anomalies. Those things certainly happen, but it's usually obvious. In my experience, snaky tuners are most often the culprit. Many try to cheap out there, to their eventual frustration. Good tuners are expensive for a reason: they're properly made to close tolerances. Close behind that is proper string winding. Even locking tuners won't cure an improper wind. With lockers, you don't want any wind. That's their whole schtick. With no winds on the peg, there's nothing to loosen/tighten as you play.
So, good locking tuners (Schallers, Sperzels) properly wound (read: not wound at all), a well-cut nut and bridge saddles, and exercised strings equals a guitar that will stay in tune.
Let's dismiss magic, just for fun. What else would cause the strings to get tighter?
Well, if the string hangs up in the nut slot or at the bridge, string tree, or tuner it can end up either tighter or looser after being stretched. So, the solution would seem to involve getting rid of hangup points. The nut is a pretty common failure point, as are string trees. Not so much saddles, but they can be bitches, too. Graphtech solves most of those problems, properly applied.
But, all the above are anomalies. Those things certainly happen, but it's usually obvious. In my experience, snaky tuners are most often the culprit. Many try to cheap out there, to their eventual frustration. Good tuners are expensive for a reason: they're properly made to close tolerances. Close behind that is proper string winding. Even locking tuners won't cure an improper wind. With lockers, you don't want any wind. That's their whole schtick. With no winds on the peg, there's nothing to loosen/tighten as you play.
So, good locking tuners (Schallers, Sperzels) properly wound (read: not wound at all), a well-cut nut and bridge saddles, and exercised strings equals a guitar that will stay in tune.
Cagey said:
So what's your opinion on the Gotoh SG38's that Warmoth sell on their website? The regular Fender Schaller tuners on my Am Std Strat held tuning extremely well, and as well if not better than the Fender Schaller locking type on my old Strat Plus, which is why I chose the Gotohs over locking tuners.
Cagey
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mystique1 said:
I don't have any experience with those tuners because they don't lock, so I won't use them. They may be well-made, and that wouldn't surprise me because Gotoh makes a lot of good stuff. The state of the art has advanced a bit in the last 60 years, and those folks aren't afraid to keep up. But, you have to keep in mind that manufacturers are driven to build what will sell, logic/performance be damned. Look at Kluson, Bigsby, Gibson, Fender et al.
I've seen more than one player complain about lockers, but usually it's because they're treating them like old-fashioned tuners. That is, they thread the string through and leave enough slack to get at least 2 or 3 winds on the peg before locking the string down. That's wrong. You thread the string through and pull it tight, THEN lock it, then tune the string. You shouldn't have more than a half to one full wind on the peg, or you've wasted your money. The object of the exercise is to keep windings off the peg. Those are what slacken/tighten as you're playing and put you out of tune. That, and crummy nuts and the dreaded string trees.
Patrick from Davis
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You can also use a mechanical pencil to color in the slots on the nut with graphite for some added slickness.
Patrick
Patrick
Darn.
Cagey is right about not winding extra string around the peg as it defeats the purpose of a locking tuner. I am a little annoyed that I simply did not notice this with my own schaller tuners on 3 of my guitars, but again I have not really had any tuning issues. I will make sure I thread the correct way next time.
I also agree that locking tuners should work best. I say 'should' because as I said I too have been using them incorrectly with 2-3 winds as I do with my old-style tuners. :doh:
One thing I would like to add here, is that apart from having the correct amount of filing on the nut, I have discovered that good lubrication of the string nut, saddles, and any trees with something like Big Bends Nut Sauce dramatically reduces tuning and string breakage issues. Especially on the nut where the strings get caught.
Also with the recent cold weather, I have found that guitars in which have been left in my entertainment room for a couple of days with not a lot of heating (have been unwell this week so taking it easy), have gone out of tune in the sharp direction. This I am convinced is the result of that room being significantly colder for the last few days. My guitars in another room with adequate heating, have had no tuning problems at all.
Point is a number of factors contribute to tuning issues and you have to start with the most basics to try and eliminate or reduce them.
Cagey is right about not winding extra string around the peg as it defeats the purpose of a locking tuner. I am a little annoyed that I simply did not notice this with my own schaller tuners on 3 of my guitars, but again I have not really had any tuning issues. I will make sure I thread the correct way next time.
I also agree that locking tuners should work best. I say 'should' because as I said I too have been using them incorrectly with 2-3 winds as I do with my old-style tuners. :doh:
One thing I would like to add here, is that apart from having the correct amount of filing on the nut, I have discovered that good lubrication of the string nut, saddles, and any trees with something like Big Bends Nut Sauce dramatically reduces tuning and string breakage issues. Especially on the nut where the strings get caught.
Also with the recent cold weather, I have found that guitars in which have been left in my entertainment room for a couple of days with not a lot of heating (have been unwell this week so taking it easy), have gone out of tune in the sharp direction. This I am convinced is the result of that room being significantly colder for the last few days. My guitars in another room with adequate heating, have had no tuning problems at all.
Point is a number of factors contribute to tuning issues and you have to start with the most basics to try and eliminate or reduce them.
Guitarfish
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Maka491 said:
The same but different; we’ve been having some unpleasantly hot days downunder (40 + deg C). If you can find the energy to practice in that, you find you have tune up significantly. Of course next time you pick up the guitar at a 'normal' temperature (relatively, much colder) it is generally sharp...
I seem to recall the same pattern after gigs, where I've tuned up in a hot sweaty venue under lights, and next time I pick up the guitar at home it is over-tight.
AprioriMark
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There's one simple issue that may seem like a silly question, but is your nut still glued down? Is it angling in the slot (if it's a Fender style nut; can't tell from your pic)? This commonly happens with Warmoth or LP style headstocks if the nut gets knocked loose while it's strung up. It'll wiggle around during play. Glue it back in place if it's come loose.
As far as the Gotohs, I've never had issues with them. I also prefer locking tuners, but they're as solid as non-locking tuners come.
Everything else aside, I know it seems a little offensive when people suggest things you're acutely aware of, or just plain haven't read what you've written, but hopefully someone will help you solve the mystery. In my vast Warmoth-assembling experience, I have never encountered wood shifting that makes the entire guitar go sharp on a regular basis. I do keep newly assembled guitars strung up for a week before I do any fret work, especially with exotic wood necks, because I do believe in the mythical "settling." That being said, my Warmoths are my most solid guitars, and I would be surprised if the neck or body was the issue.
-Mark
As far as the Gotohs, I've never had issues with them. I also prefer locking tuners, but they're as solid as non-locking tuners come.
Everything else aside, I know it seems a little offensive when people suggest things you're acutely aware of, or just plain haven't read what you've written, but hopefully someone will help you solve the mystery. In my vast Warmoth-assembling experience, I have never encountered wood shifting that makes the entire guitar go sharp on a regular basis. I do keep newly assembled guitars strung up for a week before I do any fret work, especially with exotic wood necks, because I do believe in the mythical "settling." That being said, my Warmoths are my most solid guitars, and I would be surprised if the neck or body was the issue.
-Mark
AprioriMark said:
Yeh the nut was installed by Warmoth and is well seated in the slot. I took the advice given on here and widened the nut slots, then applied pencil lead in each. Saturday nights gig was a big improvement and the guitar barely lost tuning all night. I did notice a "ping", when I was tuning again on Sunday and it wasn't from the nut but one of the bridge saddles. They're the Fender powdered steel type. I've never encountered this in all my years of playing and I had a Strat Plus with the same saddles for 23 years. I'll persevere with them for now and see if they wear in, but a set of Callaham bent steel saddles may well replace them if I have any more tuning issues.
