Set neck vs. bolt-on neck

[nickpace1227]

I know the physical difference between a set and bolt on neck, but is there really any difference in tone or sustain? The only reason I ask is I am thinking of building a guitar and I wanted to know if there was really any advantage or if it was more of a pain in the ass than it was worth. Also is it advisable to do a set neck being that i have no experience with building a guitar....or woodwork in general. I suspect the answer is that it isn't but I figured I should ask. As I bet you can tell I'm pretty much clueless when it comes to guitar building so any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bagman67]

Hi, Nick.


The answer to "which is better, set neck or bolt neck" is really more of a religious one than a factual one.  You'll get a lot of answers ranging from the reasoned assesments of why the two types of joints were chosen in the first place, and how there is little objective evaluation of which is the most functional - all the way to full-blast jihadi manifestos on one side or the other.


Warmoth makes it easy for you to choose:  You can have any kind of neck joint you want, as long as it's bolt-on.  No neck-through, no set-neck - just bolt on, in a few flavors:  Standard, contour, and 720-mod, with tilts as well.  My feeling is this is because the market for bolt-on replacement necks is the largest, and easiest to satisfy in a standardized way.  Warmoth is, after all, a parts company, not a finished-instrument company.


Good luck in your search.


IGB

 

[greywolf]

I just completed and delivered a set neck bass that used the same components as the last bolt on I built.

Yes, there is a slight difference in tone,  whether it is better is hugely subjective .  In this case the client had played the bolt on version first , and liked the set neck better.

 

[nickpace1227]

So it would be of comparable quality if not equal then? Is it possible to get a body and neck from Warmoth and simply glue it in (obviously with the correct glues)? Or would other changes need to be made? also what would those correct glues be? lol Or would it be much simpler to just bolt-on the neck? The only reason I ask is because you always hear about how superior the set necks are and how bolt-on, while good, are not necessarily as good or better. However, I found a site that said if a bolt-on neck was done properly then it would be as good as a set neck. I've been curious about this for a while and it's good to find a website with people who seem to know what they are talking about! lol any and all help is appreciated thanks.

 

[bagman67]

Your typical set neck relies on a dovetail/mortise & tenon arrangement to get a gluing surface with more area and, just as importantly, to add the mechanical strength of such a joint.  Simply gluing a bolt-on neck into the pocket leaves you vulnerable to all manner of mischief. All that neck with comparatively little gluing surface - and the leverage of the neck against what is essentially a lap joint - means you could lose the neck pretty easily. 


You could adopt a belt-and-suspenders approach, and glue AND bolt the neck in place, but then you lose the advantages of the bolt neck anyway - easy replacement and adjustment - in exchange for a dubious advantage.

 

[Cagey]

Just speaking purely about wood joinery, there's a difference between how tight a joint is and how strong it is. Of course, you can also have both, with varying degrees of each.

You really can't glue on a neck that's designed to be bolted on, no matter what glue you use. You would end up with what's known as a "lap joint", which by itself usually isn't the strongest of joints, and it would have too small an area for the amount of force it's expected to withstand. Long story short, the neck would come off with very little effort, kinda like a Gibson headstock.

A neck that's going to be glued needs a lot more surface area for the joint interface, and possibly some interlocking cuts to prevent movement. So, you usually see very large dovetail or mortise and tenon joints. Nothing holds the neck on but glue, but there's lots of it. Not very tight, but generally pretty strong.

Bolting the neck on changes the game. Now, rather than a glue joint, you're relying on the strength of the fasteners and the shear strength of the wood, both of which are generally high with the woods typically chosen for bodies/necks. Because you're applying clamping force with the fasteners, you also end up with a much tighter joint as well.

So, properly designed glue joints will give you strength, but a less tight connection. Bolted joints give you strength and rigidity. Which is better? I don't know. Do tomatoes taste better than apples? Does a Robin sing better than a Bluejay? Which of your daughters is prettier?

 

[Patrick from Davis]

If one joint were appreciably better than another, it would be the "winner."  At this point, after much research and experimentation, there doesn't seem to be a winner.  Do they feel different?  Sure.  Do they sound different?  Tough to say.  There tends to be a lot of variability with in the same species of wood, never mind the manner of attachment.  Kind of makes controls difficult for the experiment.  In general, they both work well.  If you like one over the other for whatever reason, go with it and be happy.  Otherwise the bolt on is much easier to accomplish, change, or repair.  If it doesn't matter to you, it doesn't to me, go for the functional advantage to keep your options open.
Patrick

 

[bagman67]

I love finding out I'm right when Cagey posts the same information I did, but more colorfully.  Fortunately, I only have one daughter, so she's the prettiest one by far.

 

[Cagey]

I didn't mean to repeat what you said - apparently I spent too much time editing <grin>

 

[bagman67]

I reckon we were just working in parallel, Cagey.

 

[tylereot]

Regardless, Cagey and Bagman, great posts, and thoroughly handled question!
ccasion14:

 

[Cagey]

Cool! So... now we can go off-topic!

 

[Jusatele]

just to stir the pot
if you have a neck thru, there is no joint
with a bolt on it is wood on wood
with a set neck there is glue between the 2 woods

I do not know but looks like the best would be neck thru, bolt then set,

anyone want to discuss that?

 

[bagman67]

just to stir the pot
if you have a neck thru, there is no joint
with a bolt on it is wood on wood
with a set neck there is glue between the 2 woods

I do not know but looks like the best would be neck thru, bolt then set,

anyone want to discuss that?

TEchnically, if you have a neck-through, you do have glue joints for the wings, but there's no joint along the string's sounding length.


Pedantically yours,


Bagman

 

[Strat Avenger]

I think they both sound good. I like "bolt-on" necks for the ability to remove and replace if necessary. It's all preference.

 

[Cagey]

I just hate all guitars, whether they have necks on them or not.

 

[Dan025]

ok, slow down. did the site that talked about bolton necks being better if properly designed have anything to do with "the las vegas guitar king" ed roman? though i agree with that one statement to some extent that guy is not to be taken seriously. and his name should not be brought up on the forums lest flaming will ensue.

he is highly opinionated, and seems he just likes to argue the contrary to popular beliefs for the sake of feeling superior. he was a charlatan and defrauded people selling olp musicman guitars as the real thing after he changed the pickups and did setup work. he may feel just in the idea that it is a comparable instrument but he charged a premium for it and misled buyers. 

now what i will say is his idea of a bolt on being potentially better does hold some weight. a few high end acoustic manufacturers are exclusively making bolt on necks these days, though with the construction style you wouldn't know it. it allows shimming to compensate for tops that have bowed or sunken due to humidity changes.

ed roman will talk about sonic transfer and glue having poor acoustical properties, well i don't know, it sounds good but where is the research? he also exclaims that the fender bolt-ons aren't better but his own shop has a better design. well i don't see any structural reason one bolt-on will have better sonic transfer than another. but his necks do have great upper fret access.

i would really consider upper fret access as the biggest factor. i mean if a fender bolt-on was sonically inferior then imagine how good all those famous musicians could have sounded had they played ed roman instruments... but i guess my point is that setneck guitars "look" more high end because of the nice sculpting and it can offer an advantage in playability but actually indicating something being high end or being a factor in an instrument sounding better? i dunno... there is a bit of as stigma against bolt-on necks out there, so if you choose a set neck let it be because it's either cosmetically or functionally (better feel/access) what you want and not because you are afraid a bolt-on is substandard.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I just hate all guitars, whether they have necks on them or not.

You're just not a guitar-guy.  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Strat Avenger]

ok, slow down. did the site that talked about bolton necks being better if properly designed have anything to do with "the las vegas guitar king" ed roman? though i agree with that one statement to some extent that guy is not to be taken seriously. and his name should not be brought up on the forums lest flaming will ensue.

he is highly opinionated, and seems he just likes to argue the contrary to popular beliefs for the sake of feeling superior. he was a charlatan and defrauded people selling olp musicman guitars as the real thing after he changed the pickups and did setup work. he may feel just in the idea that it is a comparable instrument but he charged a premium for it and misled buyers. 

now what i will say is his idea of a bolt on being potentially better does hold some weight. a few high end acoustic manufacturers are exclusively making bolt on necks these days, though with the construction style you wouldn't know it. it allows shimming to compensate for tops that have bowed or sunken due to humidity changes.

ed roman will talk about sonic transfer and glue having poor acoustical properties, well i don't know, it sounds good but where is the research? he also exclaims that the fender bolt-ons aren't better but his own shop has a better design. well i don't see any structural reason one bolt-on will have better sonic transfer than another. but his necks do have great upper fret access.

i would really consider upper fret access as the biggest factor. i mean if a fender bolt-on was sonically inferior then imagine how good all those famous musicians could have sounded had they played ed roman instruments... but i guess my point is that setneck guitars "look" more high end because of the nice sculpting and it can offer an advantage in playability but actually indicating something being high end or being a factor in an instrument sounding better? i dunno... there is a bit of as stigma against bolt-on necks out there, so if you choose a set neck let it be because it's either cosmetically or functionally (better feel/access) what you want and not because you are afraid a bolt-on is substandard.

Ed Roman is deceased.

But yeah, when I first discovered him, I believed everything he said. I have since realized that about half of what he said is true while the other half was a combination of opinion, speculation, and just utter B.S.

 

[nickpace1227]

Well Dan0 apparently you read the same article I did because I believe that it was him. He did seem kinda douchey when I read the article, but I digress. Yeah I was kinda thinking that some of what he said was bull, but, then again, some of it seemed to make sense. Though considering there has been more than one guy here saying its more preference than anything I think I'll take your guys word on it. Pretty much the only reason I even asked the question is because I had that "bolt-on bad, set neck good" thing going on. If, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make much of a difference then I think I'll just do the bolt-on and make it easy on myself. Besides I don't have a damn clue how to set a neck anyways! And for the record Cagey, robins sing better than blue jays lol