Rio Grande TX/BBQ pickups are too muddy...

[DangerousR6]

I have a set in my JD signature telecaster, and love them.  They scream in that!  But they weren't right for my VIP, and I have no other guitar to put them in.  So I was not making anything up   :icon_scratch:  Not sure where I said they were poopy and dookieish?  Just that they were to muddy for this guitar

You could try some 1 meg pots, these will not attenuate like 500k and 250k pots. And in essence will run your pups wide open...

Or you could get some hotter pups, like some Dimarzio D-Activators.... :icon_thumright:

 

[Jusatele]

I play around with winding pickups a bit, I have tried all kinds of manets, wire gauges,wind amounts magnet length, magnet strength, height of bobbin, scatter wired, wire tension the list goes on. They all effect that pickup. and once you devise a formula, you can duplicate it every time.
HOWEVER
then you sell it and it gets sent back because they say it sounds like shitee, So you ask to see the axe they had it in, and it has cheap electronics, pots not matched to your pickup, capacitors set for single coils when you sold a humbucker or vise versa, cold joints in the soldering job etc
his setup is bad as the stings are to close or to far;.or he has a sting spacing that will not work with the pickups well. missing one spring on the pickup or using something because he lost 1
Neck wood seems to matter a lot more than body, but the biggest 2 things that matter is the electronic setup and the ability of the artist to play his axe and tune his volume and tone pots.

 

[Superlizard]

They all effect that pickup. and once you devise a formula, you can duplicate it every time.
HOWEVER
then you sell it and it gets sent back because they say it sounds like shiteee,

:laughing7:

That's cuz they're ignorant - they think that a guitar's tone comes solely from the pickup.

"oh, if I buy this d00d's pickup here, it'll make my axe all magical and stuff..."

 

[Jusatele]

They all effect that pickup. and once you devise a formula, you can duplicate it every time.
HOWEVER
then you sell it and it gets sent back because they say it sounds like shiteeeeee,

:laughing7:

That's cuz they're ignorant - they think that a guitar's tone comes solely from the pickup.

"oh, if I buy this d00d's pickup here, it'll make my axe all magical and stuff..."

that is what I mean
the difference in a custom shop guitar, and an American standard, and a MIM is huge,  I have an AS strat, around a 2003, but the entire electronics package has been torn out and new PUs, pots and new electronics have been installed, When I got it it sounded weak, now it snarls real mice. Now My PRS Custom 22 artist package 10 top came out of the box sounding great, but it cost 2 grand more then the American Standard. The Warmoth I am building will cost in parts about 7 to 8 hundred, but there is no labor fitted in besides mine in that estimate. If it fails to be the axe I dream of it will be my fault. You get out of an axe what you put into it, 400 does not buy what a grand does which is not 3 grand etc.
my point is, PUs get you tone ,traditional woods, quality workmanship, and quality axe chopping.,These things have worked forever, 

 

[MN_JDTele]

Like I said before, I know the Rio Grande's are killer pups.  I am running the same set (minus the gold covers) in my tele...per the recommendations of people on this board!  So I had a pretty good baseline to go by.  They weren't cheap, and I wasn't out to build a cheap guitar.  I have plenty of money tied up in my VIP.  But I didn't fully consider the tonal impact my choice of woods would have  :doh:  The only component I changed to clean up the tone, was the pickups.  Same wiring, same pots, same cap.  Pulled the rios and put in a set of duncan '59s.  They are the right blend of brighter pickup in this particular guitar.  The tone is definately closer to what I was originally hoping for on the rios.  I didn't have to chisel away wood to fit a 1-meg pot in, just picked a better suited pickup for the guitar.  I still believe the TX/BBQ pickups are worth every penny though, and I am in no way bashing their quality.  So in the end, I took the advice of more people on this board and the end result is I am happy finally with the dream guitar I set out to build!  Thanks to everyone for their help and advice! 

 

[DangerousR6]

Like I said before, I know the Rio Grande's are killer pups.  I am running the same set (minus the gold covers) in my tele...per the recommendations of people on this board!  So I had a pretty good baseline to go by.  They weren't cheap, and I wasn't out to build a cheap guitar.  I have plenty of money tied up in my VIP.  But I didn't fully consider the tonal impact my choice of woods would have   :doh:  The only component I changed to clean up the tone, was the pickups.  Same wiring, same pots, same cap.  Pulled the rios and put in a set of duncan '59s.  They are the right blend of brighter pickup in this particular guitar.  The tone is definately closer to what I was originally hoping for on the rios.  I didn't have to chisel away wood to fit a 1-meg pot in, just picked a better suited pickup for the guitar.  I still believe the TX/BBQ pickups are worth every penny though, and I am in no way bashing their quality.  So in the end, I took the advice of more people on this board and the end result is I am happy finally with the dream guitar I set out to build!  Thanks to everyone for their help and advice! 

That's good you found the right pups, I went thru sorta the same thing when building Billy Bad Ass, and ended up switching out pups, but I actually found a problem in the wiring after I'd already bought the new pup... :doh: It happens..

There's also no need to do any wood removal for the 1 meg pots, they use the same 3/8" shaft as any other pots, and can be had in long or short shaft... :dontknow:

 

[MN_JDTele]

Would you give me a link to long shaft 1-Meg pots?  I couldn't find them anywhere!!

 

[DangerousR6]

Would you give me a link to long shaft 1-Meg pots?  I couldn't find them anywhere!!

http://www.torresengineering.com/giblonshafpo.html

 

[jay4321]

'59s are a pretty good pickup set in the right guitar, and reasonably priced. I've had them in an all-mahogany Epi LP and they seem a pretty good fit.

 

[MN_JDTele]

Would you give me a link to long shaft 1-Meg pots?  I couldn't find them anywhere!!

http://www.torresengineering.com/giblonshafpo.html

Thanks!!

 

[Firebird211]

I'm glad everything worked out for you.  I agree with the fact that wood tone should not be ignored, you could almost name your wood combination warm and warmer.  Pickups don't magically improve what already isn't there, but you do have to find the correct match to your taste, glad you did. ccasion14:

 

[MN_JDTele]

I ordered up a long shaft 1Meg pot to try out.  We'll see how it goes!

 

[rightintheface]

i have the same problem my friend.

I have two W teles - one BK chambered with wenge/ebony neck, one thinline alder with rosewood/eb neck.

The Rio BBQ sounded like balllllls in the thinline (rosewood neck), sounded awesome in the BK one. bought the rosewood neck on a whim when i had the cash, now i don't! wish I'd gone for a brighter neck in hindsight, especially as i play thick strings down a half step and some warm sounding amps (orange). Let me know how you go with the 1 meg, should be interesting

 

[dNA]

i skipped most of the post, as i can only assume it was 4 pages of people arguing about whether or not the build of the guitar really affects tone.

that being said, I am a believer that your guitar's construction does in fact affect tone. Pickups PICK UP vibrations - if your strings are not vibrating at high frequencies, the pickups won't pick it up.

But i won't argue the logic. I'll just say that I've always loved warm sounding guitars, but struggled with their amplified tone. I suggest you play the guitar unplugged and really listen to the distinct characteristics of the guitar. Is the pick attack bright, or is it more thuddy? Do high overtones sustain well, or do they fade out faster leaving the lower tones/fundamental sustaining for most of the note? Does it sound like a clear, clean guitar or is it warmer and less articulate?

If the guitar itself needs to be brighter, there are a few things you can do. The easiest thing to change is the strings. I don't know why everybody talks about this stuff with bass, but few ever attest to the strings' impact on a guitar's tone. String material and string gauge make a huge difference. I had problems with my hollowbody sounding muddy for years. i liked tighter string tension, but the heavier gauges were lacking in clarity and openness. One day i put a lighter set of strings on and tuned the guitar up a whole step from standard - voila! The guitar just came to life. It has its own voice and that combination of string gauge and pitch/tension was just perfect. That was already 3 or 4 years ago and I haven't even thought about looking back since.

Additionally, for a warm sounding guitar I would highly recommend trying out steel-wound strings. They're more commonly used on bass, but I got a set of D'Addarios for my ibanez artist (basically a les paul copy) and the thing really opened up. The wound strings have a crisper almost strat-like clarity and chime to them, without losing the body and fullness i get out of a warm sounding guitar.

 

[Firebird211]

I have to agree with SuperLizard and dNA about wood types and setup, but have one little experience to add that I am sure someone if not everyone has tried out on an electric.  When I picked out my first electric I tried it out unplugged, and I could really hear how much sweet and clear it sounded over some of the others I picked up.  Sure it has to be a little quiet in the room first, but you can hear that the guitar has a character before you even plug the thing in.  A lot of the personality comes from the pickups and can be changed, but the physical parts of the guitar, including strings, are the foundation for the electrical parts to build on.  If you look into physics you will find that all matter has a different resonant frequency, which is the frequency which a material will respond to by vibrating. Thats how Will Ferrell shattered the glass at the freaking Catalina Wine Mixer by singing the tone that makes glass vibrate. :icon_jokercolor:  The wood tone isn't an exact science, but there is a science to it.