Replace Gotoh SG38 with Schaller M6?

[Steve_Karl]

I want to replace my ancient Gotoh SG38 with a new set of Schaller M6.

I understand the hole size difference but can wrap my head around the anchoring screw hole placement and if I'll need to drill new holes.
Can someone tell me if the anchoring screw holes will line up?

Also any comments on the main hole size difference would be welcome to hear.

Thanks!

 

[Logrinn]

You could always get Hipshot's mounting plates and then you wouldn't have to worry about screw holes.

 

[Cagey]

Not having done it I'm not 100% certain, but I'm 99% sure these Gotoh "Trad" lockers will bolt right in, and they're at least as nice as the Schaller M6 parts.

 

[Steve_Karl]

You could always get Hipshot's mounting plates and then you wouldn't have to worry about screw holes.

OMG!
Sorry to say ... what a fugly option that would be.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Not having done it I'm not 100% certain, but I'm 99% sure these Gotoh "Trad" lockers will bolt right in, and they're at least as nice as the Schaller M6 parts.

Now those look interesting. I saw them all over eBay when looking but had never heard of them until today.
My only concern is they're non adjustable and I'm not wild about the 2 post heights idea.

 

[Logrinn]

OMG!
Sorry to say ... what a fugly option that would be.

Not at all. When in place, you can't actually see them. I'll post some picrures of some Hipshot tuners I put on my Super Sonic. Since I didn't want to drill new holes in the headstock I used this kind of plate. Once the new tuners were in place, the plate could hardly be seen.
I wont be able to post pictures until monday though.

 

[TBurst Std]

You could always get Hipshot's mounting plates and then you wouldn't have to worry about screw holes.

Actually I had no intention of using (and did not order them) but they came in a recent Hipshot tuner order. I figured, lets try them. Not nearly as noticable in a 6 in line configuration as you would think. Upside, installing tuners took less than a minute.

You may get pics of them soon as Cagey said he would post some pics of the work he is doing on my neck.




OMG!
Sorry to say ... what a fugly option that would be.

 

[stratamania]

If you want to look at pics of a UMP here you are



Assembly_9 by stratamania, on Flickr

A few more pics of them being fitted...

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=23725.msg347877#msg347877

 

[Steve_Karl]

Looks nice, but not my cup of tea.

 

[stratamania]

Not sure in an earlier post what you meant about not liking the two post heights on the Gotoh locking tuners.

Staggered post heights are a common feature on 6 in line locking tuners often 3 for the E A and D that are higher than the three for the G, B and E. The hipshots I have are in three different post heights though the guitars I have with 2 post heights work just as well and aid in avoiding the need for string trees.

 

[Cagey]

I'm not sure staggered posts are anything more than a marketing response to the anxieties of those who would like to lose the string trees, but are unsure that doing so won't turn their magical Jimi Hendrix toned Strat into a horrifying termite-infested ukulele tone.

I never install string trees, haven't in many years, and have used tuners that are either not staggered, half-staggered, or third-staggered, and have not been able to tell a difference. It's all in the nut. Cut those slots right, and all will be well.

I mean, look at them. How much difference are you getting out of that stagger? From the tallest to the lowest is maybe a 1/4" over 5" - what kind of angle are you introducing? How much extra pressure is developed? And why do you need that extra pressure anyway? Got a poorly cut nut?

 

[Steve_Karl]

Shaller M6 ... no staggered posts there and no problem with needing string trees.
Already have 3 sets of the M6 and they're great.

I'll probably just have to pull an M6 off and see if the hole lines up with the SG38 hole.

 

[BigSteve22]

late to the discussion I know, but here's my 2 cents anyway...

I love Hipshot tuners. I usually install them in the normal fashion, but I used the UMPs on a 50 year old neck I didn't want to re-drill. As Stratmania pointed out, hardly noticeable once installed. And Hipshot is just "up-the-road", in the NY Finger Lakes.

I've also used the Gotoh Trad Lock tuners. Nice hardware, and available in ANY stagger combination you might like, if you order them from a factory dealer. (I ordered mine 3,2,1) The only North American factory agent is Japarts:

http://www.japarts.ca/Gotoh/Gotoh-Products-SG510.asp#modlOrderingInfo

Just tell them what you want, and they'll make the arrangements. My parts were a factory special order, it took a while to arrive, but it was the only way to get exactly what I wanted. Good luck on your quest. :icon_thumright:

 

[Steve_Karl]

That pic looks great!

Are those MG-T Magnum lock Trad?

"2" is the middle range of height?

Thanks!

 

[stratamania]

Got a poorly cut nut?

No.

Granted the difference may be slight but it is a difference even with a well-cut nut.

Sure things can work without a stagger. But I like the staggered approach. With old traditional tuners years ago we tried to achieve that with more winds.

 

[BigSteve22]

That pic looks great!

Are those MG-T Magnum lock Trad?

"2" is the middle range of height?

Thanks!

Yes, those are Gotoh Trad locks. I mis-spoke regarding their height, actually I ordered that set as 3,2,1, meaning 3x18.5mm, 2x20mm, 1x21.5mm. The order was specified to Japarts as:

"Gotoh, SGS510Z mini tuners, 1:18, with P8 Modern (tortoise) buttons, X-Chrome finish, MG-T locking posts (3x18.5mm, 2x20mm, 1x21.5mm). For a 6 in-line, standard right handed neck. (Tuners install on the bass, (Left), side of the headstock.)"

Gotoh's complete specs and available options are listed in their catalog, available here:

https://g-gotoh.com/international/catalog-2

 

[Steve_Karl]

Thank you! This is very kind and helpful.

 

[Steve_Karl]

That pic looks great!

Are those MG-T Magnum lock Trad?

"2" is the middle range of height?

Thanks!

Yes, those are Gotoh Trad locks. I mis-spoke regarding their height, actually I ordered that set as 3,2,1, meaning 3x18.5mm, 2x20mm, 1x21.5mm. The order was specified to Japarts as:

"Gotoh, SGS510Z mini tuners, 1:18, with P8 Modern (tortoise) buttons, X-Chrome finish, MG-T locking posts (3x18.5mm, 2x20mm, 1x21.5mm). For a 6 in-line, standard right handed neck. (Tuners install on the bass, (Left), side of the headstock.)"

Gotoh's complete specs and available options are listed in their catalog, available here:

https://g-gotoh.com/international/catalog-2

Thanks again.
I cloned your order except all of mine are 20mm.

 

[Kostas]

...My parts were a factory special order...

Gotoh has endless options, I haven't seen a dealer anywhere in the world having even half of their products, it's impossible. I have used a Japanese store twice, I custom order to them and two weeks later they ship my order. I also have the SG38 tuners that I got from Warmoth, they are on the guitar for ten years. Pretty basic looks (compared to the 510 line) but they work as they should.

 

[Steve_Karl]

My only reason for replacing is that my SG38s are 30+ years old and getting a bit wonky.
If they could be opened, cleaned and lubed again that would work. But they're sealed
and I don't want to get into hacking them.