Anyone ever had a really bad co-worker? Someone who was bad for the place you worked for, and just a scum bag in general, but every time you said anything to the boss, they somehow BSed their way out of it? Two of my co-workers and I are trying to decide what to do about this problem without getting burned by the guy we're turning in should he somehow manage to not get fired.
Really bad co-worker
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Steve_Karl
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hannaugh said:
I'd not interfere or offer any information to management unless it was solicited.
I think you're correct in guessing you might get burned.
Document document document. Keep a journal or a log of every incident. If it is affecting the customers suggest they complain to the boss. Find a way to make it your boss' problem as well. It's hard but if the guy is a screw up quit picking up his slack. One of the hardest things I have ever done was "get" someone fired. I didn't want to be a snitch or anything but the guy was detrimental to the program. He was really giving the kids mixed messages. He had inappropriate boundaries with the kids. He had a grudge against the company and just had ranked morale. It was really bad. I tried to talk to him about it all the time. He would just become very angry and extremely unprofessional. It had to be done. I'm not sure of the labor laws in your state but sometimes you need a pretty strong case to let someone go. Lots of proof. It sucks when work makes you miserable, especially when its a field you love and are passionate about. Nobody deserves that kind of environment. I don't know your situation but if this guy is doing anything to hurt business you should probably peruse those avenues. If he's doing something to create a hostile work environment your boss really needs to step in. I don't know the insurance and outs so I can't really give specific advice. Just keep your chin up and know that's its him and not you. At the end of the day you're the one with integrity. I'm sorry to hear this because you've spoken of your job in such a positive way. I hope it all works out. If not just pay a really big guy to beat him up. :icon_jokercolor:
Ha, we'd have to find a REALLY big guy because this guy used to be a bouncer.
I've let things go with this guy for years, but according to the dude who works with him the most, he is getting to the point where he is "borrowing" items from inventory so he can read them at home and taking things from inventory that he doesn't think will sell and throwing them in the dumpster without consulting the owner. I think the most annoying thing to me is that he lies constantly to everyone. He'll tell me he is going to "get a smoothie", and he comes back an hour later and then when my other co-worker comes in later that day, he says the guy was at home on the phone with him trying to figure out how to fix his Xbox during that time he was out. And he does a lot of weird secretive things like buying a $500 statue, returning it 2 days later, then coming in and "borrowing" it for a few hours a couple days after that. I don't know what he was doing, but I do know that he used to have a partnership in a competing collectibles shop, so maybe he was switching it out for one that they got that had a crack in it. I don't know. But it's all very shady.
The other thing too is that I don't want him to get caught and then we get in trouble for not saying anything about it.
I've let things go with this guy for years, but according to the dude who works with him the most, he is getting to the point where he is "borrowing" items from inventory so he can read them at home and taking things from inventory that he doesn't think will sell and throwing them in the dumpster without consulting the owner. I think the most annoying thing to me is that he lies constantly to everyone. He'll tell me he is going to "get a smoothie", and he comes back an hour later and then when my other co-worker comes in later that day, he says the guy was at home on the phone with him trying to figure out how to fix his Xbox during that time he was out. And he does a lot of weird secretive things like buying a $500 statue, returning it 2 days later, then coming in and "borrowing" it for a few hours a couple days after that. I don't know what he was doing, but I do know that he used to have a partnership in a competing collectibles shop, so maybe he was switching it out for one that they got that had a crack in it. I don't know. But it's all very shady.
The other thing too is that I don't want him to get caught and then we get in trouble for not saying anything about it.
AprioriMark
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The world also needs all kinds of people to get things done. Best to do your job properly, stay out of the way, and let things happen without catching backlash. If he's not harming you directly or impacting your job, and the boss has been made aware of things, it's ridiculous to bother getting involved. The management has made their choice in the past, knowing who he is, and you can't force them to not be stupid. Stay out in front of anything that might impact you or your job performance, and stay away from being an excuse for him.
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Nightclub Dwight
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This is hard because you want to do right by your company. I've been in similar situations. Unfortunately, my best advice is to leave it alone, unless you have a management position and have direct responsibility for his conduct. These things tend to get messy and its best to be totally clear when the you-know-what hits the fan. Too much could go wrong for you if you step in.
What if it's more than one person coming forward with stuff like this? Say there are 3 people who work with him and all 3 come forward with a long list of specific incidents where he was dishonest, undermined the boss' authority, or was just plain bad for business. He is the store manager, and one of these people coming forward is also a manager.
Nightclub Dwight
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That plan is better than just you coming forward.
But it still might be a problem. If the person in question is the store manager it is a really difficult situation. If the owner doesn't immediately recognize your complaints as valid, it is likely the store manager will eventually find out that people went behind his back. He can make life difficult for you in countless ways.
In the various businesses where I've worked, I've seen numerous instances of managerial incompetance. I always assumed it was because the owners didn't know what was going on at the employee level. But after I worked my way up the managerial chain my perspective changed. For 3 years I was the general manager of a large wholesale distribution company and it gave me a lot of insight into things that casual employees don't get to see. Very often senior management knows that a particular manager or employee is bad news, but they choose to keep them for a variety of reasons. The bad employee may be related to the owner's family, or might be a family friend, or more often may bring a particular skill that is hard to find elsewhere.
We had a transportation manager who worked a shift that began around 4:30 in the afternoon and ended in the wee hours. He didn't get along well with his wife, so he'd work very late into the night just to be away from her. We knew that he had poor management skills, but he knew our truck fleet inside and out, and he was the only person who would work those hours that we needed at the salary we were paying him. So when he'd muck things up with one of our drivers we would just smooth it over in the front office.
At another job I had, the senior management team hired a manager for a division, and he was given the task to save money no matter what the cost. The people who worked under him suffered because of this. Whenever they'd bring complaints about his mis-management they would fall on deaf ears because the senior management team was satisfied with the job he was doing in saving money, so they considered the hurt feelings of his employees as collateral damage. Of course it ended up hurting the company in the long run, but in the short run it baffled a lot of people why that guy got away with so much ineptitude (it was because his sole reason for being there was to save money, not effectively manage the unit.)
These are two simple examples I've witnessed where good employees brought concerns about a manager to senior management, but nothing was done about the problem manager. I just offer these as a caution in case something like this happens in your situation.
If you decide to go forward with this, you have to be ready to accept the consequences if the problem manager finds out that you went behind his back. You may be right about him being bad, but unless you get the owner to agree with you, it may be worse for you afterward.
But it still might be a problem. If the person in question is the store manager it is a really difficult situation. If the owner doesn't immediately recognize your complaints as valid, it is likely the store manager will eventually find out that people went behind his back. He can make life difficult for you in countless ways.
In the various businesses where I've worked, I've seen numerous instances of managerial incompetance. I always assumed it was because the owners didn't know what was going on at the employee level. But after I worked my way up the managerial chain my perspective changed. For 3 years I was the general manager of a large wholesale distribution company and it gave me a lot of insight into things that casual employees don't get to see. Very often senior management knows that a particular manager or employee is bad news, but they choose to keep them for a variety of reasons. The bad employee may be related to the owner's family, or might be a family friend, or more often may bring a particular skill that is hard to find elsewhere.
We had a transportation manager who worked a shift that began around 4:30 in the afternoon and ended in the wee hours. He didn't get along well with his wife, so he'd work very late into the night just to be away from her. We knew that he had poor management skills, but he knew our truck fleet inside and out, and he was the only person who would work those hours that we needed at the salary we were paying him. So when he'd muck things up with one of our drivers we would just smooth it over in the front office.
At another job I had, the senior management team hired a manager for a division, and he was given the task to save money no matter what the cost. The people who worked under him suffered because of this. Whenever they'd bring complaints about his mis-management they would fall on deaf ears because the senior management team was satisfied with the job he was doing in saving money, so they considered the hurt feelings of his employees as collateral damage. Of course it ended up hurting the company in the long run, but in the short run it baffled a lot of people why that guy got away with so much ineptitude (it was because his sole reason for being there was to save money, not effectively manage the unit.)
These are two simple examples I've witnessed where good employees brought concerns about a manager to senior management, but nothing was done about the problem manager. I just offer these as a caution in case something like this happens in your situation.
If you decide to go forward with this, you have to be ready to accept the consequences if the problem manager finds out that you went behind his back. You may be right about him being bad, but unless you get the owner to agree with you, it may be worse for you afterward.
Nando Vallart
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Well, if he is a d!ck is one thing, if he is carrying this to home, what I would call stealing is just another thing... That is something that you SHALL tell to your boss...
I've had lots of trouble on my job even sabotage... a guy locked the heating-system of a tubing-line... I discovered, opened it and callled my supervisor... What happened? Nothing... all the boss like them...
I've had lots of trouble on my job even sabotage... a guy locked the heating-system of a tubing-line... I discovered, opened it and callled my supervisor... What happened? Nothing... all the boss like them...
Torment Leaves Scars
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Wanna know what I'd do? I'd leave it alone. You've already alerted the "powers that be." Just walk away, and concentrate on your own job. Don't go chasing something that is now in the hands of the owners. The "good samaritan" never comes out as the winner, but instead finds himself attacked not only by the party of wrong-doers, but those he/she tries to help, too.
Just leave it alone...
Just leave it alone...
Wana_make_a_guitar
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I have a pretty crap co-worker currently. My new Boss.
I work at a local cafe and my old boss was the nicest lady I've ever known and I worked with her for about a year and got to know all the locals and regulars, but she sold the business and my new boss and she is just crappy. Really lazy and pretty much just running the business into the ground and making things harder for herself by being really arrogant and un-friendly to the customers, especially the locals for some strange reason.
Looks as though the only thing to do right now is to battle through it as the bypass that is being built around our town and being flanked with new cafes soon will draw business away from the cafe i'm working at and i'll have to find a new job anyways. Not that that's a real hard thing to do in this town if I want pocket money, that is if I haven't moved out of home already and found a real job. I'm only still working there because the pay is pretty good for casual work.
Oh well, /rant.
I work at a local cafe and my old boss was the nicest lady I've ever known and I worked with her for about a year and got to know all the locals and regulars, but she sold the business and my new boss and she is just crappy. Really lazy and pretty much just running the business into the ground and making things harder for herself by being really arrogant and un-friendly to the customers, especially the locals for some strange reason.
Looks as though the only thing to do right now is to battle through it as the bypass that is being built around our town and being flanked with new cafes soon will draw business away from the cafe i'm working at and i'll have to find a new job anyways. Not that that's a real hard thing to do in this town if I want pocket money, that is if I haven't moved out of home already and found a real job. I'm only still working there because the pay is pretty good for casual work.
Oh well, /rant.
Jusatele
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NightClub's post about rarely does a coworker get the good end of the stick and to leave it alone is the best advice here.
rarely does a whistle blower not suffer, it seams as soon as you blow the whistle, you start to get put under the microscope yourself, first the person rebels against anyone who may have seen them or lies and then you are being looked at, but just blowing a whistle makes them see if you have any ghost and are trying to cover them up. I know you work for a small company, but that in itself means the decisions made can be very personal and not by a team. I would document what I saw to cover your self, but never create evidence or stage any, that is bad and never works.
The problem is that it takes customer complaints, and in a small specialty retail business, customers can reach management level fast, but sometimes just go to the competition and do not bother.
rarely does a whistle blower not suffer, it seams as soon as you blow the whistle, you start to get put under the microscope yourself, first the person rebels against anyone who may have seen them or lies and then you are being looked at, but just blowing a whistle makes them see if you have any ghost and are trying to cover them up. I know you work for a small company, but that in itself means the decisions made can be very personal and not by a team. I would document what I saw to cover your self, but never create evidence or stage any, that is bad and never works.
The problem is that it takes customer complaints, and in a small specialty retail business, customers can reach management level fast, but sometimes just go to the competition and do not bother.
The main thing I'm concerned about is that the guy is essentially stealing from the store. He takes books home for months at a time and brings them back, but it's still stealing since that type of "borrowing" is definitely not allowed. It finally made sense to us the other day why the inventory counts were never right.
Wana's made a guitar said:
It sucks when your boss is the bad one. I worked for a guy at a theater company who almost got people killed because he was trying to save money by not building the scenery to normal safety standards. Luckily he got fired though.
I've been thinking about an anonymous letter. The big problem is that the company is very small, so it would be obvious who it was writing it. I mean, I could write it pretending to be a customer who overheard the employees talking, which might make my boss come to us for information... I don't know if that would work though.
Nando Vallart
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If he is stealing, that is a not a complain about him, that is something that your boss want and expect you to tell him the guy is doing... If the others agree, you could send a letter with all the three signing it.
It is a good idea to be very careful with what you are doing here. I have worked my way up in management over the years, and every level you go up things make a little more sense. It is likely that the owners know what this guy is doing. Unfortunately, everything isn't as simple as just saying "you're fired". There is a lot of consideration that goes into terminating someone's employment. Some of it is legal, and some times it can simply be a matter of the manager responsible for the employee not wishing to do it.
I would simply suggest you do your job and not volunteer any information unless you are asked directly. If you are asked, be very honest about what you have witnessed and avoid any "so-and-so said they saw this". I recently had situation where an anonymous letter about a shift supervisor's misconduct reached me. Upon investigation I found this was simply some unhappy employees who had a new supervisor they didn't like because he made them work. I have no doubt that your situation is different and all you say is true, but remember anonymous letters aren't all that anonymous, and the manager above the particular manager you are writting about is going to be inclined to believe him over "anonymous" subordinates.
I have worked for some bad bosses over the years. One in particular that came to work drunk as a matter of routine. It took three years for him to get fired, and I am aware of how frustrating that can be, but the best course is to take care of your work and let things play out.
I hope that helps.
I would simply suggest you do your job and not volunteer any information unless you are asked directly. If you are asked, be very honest about what you have witnessed and avoid any "so-and-so said they saw this". I recently had situation where an anonymous letter about a shift supervisor's misconduct reached me. Upon investigation I found this was simply some unhappy employees who had a new supervisor they didn't like because he made them work. I have no doubt that your situation is different and all you say is true, but remember anonymous letters aren't all that anonymous, and the manager above the particular manager you are writting about is going to be inclined to believe him over "anonymous" subordinates.
I have worked for some bad bosses over the years. One in particular that came to work drunk as a matter of routine. It took three years for him to get fired, and I am aware of how frustrating that can be, but the best course is to take care of your work and let things play out.
I hope that helps.
Well, one of my co-workers says after the holidays, he's gonna throw the guy under the bus and tell the boss everything. The other store manager and I will be behind him if the boss asks us what we think. I'm not too worried, I've got an employment backup plan starting in February that could easily make up for the loss of that job should I need to leave at that point. I've been thinking about quitting for a while, but honestly, if the dude in question wasn't working there anymore, I probably wouldn't be. I like most of the other people there, and it can be fun.
Nightclub Dwight
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hannaugh said:
Perfect. If that other employee is going to throw the manager under the bus, you should just wait and let it play out. You can be truthful if you are asked questions by the owner, but it is really best to let the other guy stick his neck out. Back him up all you want, but let him stick his neck out.
Its really difficult going to work everyday when you are not happy with the working conditions, but your main focus has to be on protecting yourself. And although it may not seem like anyone is noticing the dishonesty that is taking place, sometimes things are working in the background that you don't even realize. These things often have a way of taking care of themselves. If the manager is indeed stealing from the store he may get more bold and steal something that will get noticed. So you might not even have to do anything to get him fired, he may well take care of it all by himself.
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