Questions to ask a guitar or bass teacher

[theklanch]

Ok so way back in the day I used to take lessons from a great jazz guitar player.  He showed me some chords and some scales, and I added to my knowledge with the good old internet (Thank you Al Gore!!!) some more chords and scales, but my playing has reached a plateau a while ago and I can't seem to get past the same stuff I know.  I know there is a certain amount of talent which I feel I do not possess, my talent is for building insrtuments rather than playing them.... but I think there is a certain amount of skill that can be taught.  So I am wondering some things about what to look for in a good instructor.

Questions I have:
How long should a lesson be? Half hour?  Whole Hour?
How many lessons a week?
I play left handed should this make a difference?  The last guy I took lessons had a hard time with this.
I can read tab without transposing it, so I figured that out.  I could read sheet music years ago, but I have lost that ability is it necessary?
Should I have music theory part of my studies?
What specifically should I have him or her teach me?  Where should we begin?
Is it a waste of money?  Can I get past this plateau on my own by practice practice practice?  What should I practice if that is the case?
I play the bass also, I would like someone to teach me both instruments at the same time, is this possible?

I am much more serious about learning the whole instrument now than I was when I was a teenager.  I would like to get past the point of playing along with my CD collection.  I have played in some garage 'jam' bands, which frankly sucked.  Everybody needed lessons, but try convincing that to a guitarist that thinks he is the next Jimmy Page.  It was fun, but never did we sound good.  There were moments of sonic quality, but most of it was rubbish.  I'd like to be able to eventually join another band or start my own and feel confident that I knew what I was doing.  Or to be able to get bookings playing myself with a singer (my wife is an awesome blues singer, kinda Janis Joplin meets Grace Slick)  I just don't feel that way now.  I can hack my way through about 30 songs, of which maybe 5 or sound what I would call 'good.'  I can't say I could go out and gig with a 5 song catalog.  I just need some suggestions and advise.  The more I hack at it the better my ear is at picking stuff up, but at this rate I am going to playing the old folks home when my family puts me there.  So, let me know your mind.

BTW I like to play Grateful Dead type music, but it isn't limited to their catalog only.  I really have no desire to write my own songs, I wouldn't mind playing other peoples original music.  I know I'll never be another Jerry Garcia or Eric Clapton or Eddie Van Halen, but I would like to someday in the not so distant future to be able to feel confident playing for other people.  How long should I dedicate to this endevor?  I think a good solid year of hourly lessons would help me out a bunch, that would be say 52 lessons at once a week or 104 lessons at twice a week.  Dunno I figured I'd bounce this off the good minds here......

 

[NonsenseTele]

Man, you do long posts 

Will tell my recently experience: Got a teacher who plays in a Dream Theather cover band... He passed me many technical exercises but no song or something more "musical" haven't gone right... Then I got a teacher who play Popular Brazilian Music on night, with a short band, sometimes him alone... Ask for learn "Riding With The King"... There are at least 4 guitar lines on the music + many instruments, he play something "near" in 3 seconds and said: "that's it".... Then I asked to change for another music, I would try to learn that with the tab... Hard time to find a teacher who thinks like me: Technics are made to help you playing the music in your head in a nice way (NOT something to make you COMPOSE music based only in technics), but who wants to play the goddamned thing right...

this is my advice, find a teacher who has the same approach than you on music...

 

[GoDrex]

I don't have a lot of answers for you - but I do know that lessons twice a week isn't practical. Once a week or every two weeks makes more sense. You need time to practice each lesson and get it mostly down.

If all you want to be able to do is play other people's music, you probably just need someone to perhaps help you with your technique. You say you can hack your way through 30 or so songs - what exactly is the problem with it? Are you just not playing them well? That's probably just something that comes with playing  A LOT.   After a certain point I could never really practice enough to be a really solid player (I didn't have the drive, had other priorities). If I play a song I'm pretty much going to screw something up at some point because I don't play enough for it all to be second nature to me. Some parts of my my playing are like second nature,  but if it comes to playing an entire piece of music, where I have to remember a bunch of different parts, I'm bound to screw up some part of it. Most people, unless they are freaks, have to practice a lot and perform a lot before they can do it like breathing.

I think learning theory is a good idea if you want to do your own music (though not a requirement) or want to be able to improvise and hang with other musicians in various contexts. It can also help you learn other people's music, but if you're already good at learning by ear and by tab then you might not need it. Though there's nothing wrong with learning.

Weekly lessons could probably help you. A teacher should be able to help you on your weaknesses. But the again if you already have most of the basics down and just want to be a better player, you could probably achieve this by doing a lot more focused practice. I think you need to think about what your musical goals are and decide how you want to get there. Either way you're going to have to put in the work and practice and play a lot.

 

[theklanch]

Man, you do long posts 

Guilty as charged!!!  I belong to a Harley-Davidson forum too and I get that all the time.  In fact my friends often ask me if there is a point to what I am saying.  I am really long winded, I can type pretty fast, so it just kinda comes out in a flurry.  Some sort of inner secretary I guess.  I tried my hand at writing short stories a while back, and they ended up not being so short......

Anyhow I really appreciate the insight.

I don't have a lot of answers for you - but I do know that lessons twice a week isn't practical. Once a week or every two weeks makes more sense. You need time to practice each lesson and get it mostly down.

You have more answers for me than you thought.  Thanks for the input.....

Either way you're going to have to put in the work and practice and play a lot.

That is the fun part of the process once you get over the frustration I was feeling.  I remember my last Ah-Ha moment with the guitar and I was absolutely obsessed with playing then.  I would play 3-4 hours a day.  I was in the groove so to speak, then I got involved with the band and lots of stuff went wrong and I kinda gave up on playing for a while.  Too many problems and personality conflicts and as I said Jimmy Page Junior.  I would spend time tuning my instrumet while he would play power chords then I would ask him if he was gonna tune up and he would say, 'whadda mean?  I'm in tune!!!'  And believe me he wasn't in tune.  Good for him if he sounds that good in his head.  These guys still go out and gig, but the funny thing is that once they play a place they are never asked back to play again.  I mixed their sound at their first gig without me (sorry this is funny and sad at the same time) they went on after a 30 some piece jazz band made up of music teachers from the local schools in front of a packed house.  We set them up and everybody in the crowd was pumped to see their debut (new name etc with a fair amount of advertising and hype)  Well I sat in amazement and watched the crowd thin out in the first two songs.  By the third song there were NO PAYING CUSTOMERS, just girlfriends and me.  I felt pretty embarassed for them, I'm glad I wasn't on stage with them.  I gotta give it to them, they consistently will go and make absolute fools of themselves for no pay in the name of exposure.  They think they are gonna land a record deal, I got news for them.... sorry again for the longwindedness I get going and don't know when to stop.... :headbang1:

 

[GoDrex]

I read a thing about a psychology study that found that the truly incompetent are so incompetent that they're incapable of being aware of how incompetent they are. Thus they're never able to learn how to get better.

 

[tfarny]

I'm almost totally self taught, except for knowing some theory and reading from piano lessons and a few aborted guitar lessons when starting out 23 years (AH!) ago, and a couple of group classes I took a few years ago.
I was taking lessons for a couple months recently, I quit because it was such a turnoff to have to slavishly copy every aspect of the printed page - "no there's no grace note there, it's only in the second verse" - who cares? It's not classical music, it's Chuck Berry!
I think that once you have a basic knowledge of chords and scales, you need enough 'fluency' to start combining them and deviating from them in ways that sound good.
I've recently been trying to teach myself some Robert Johnson and Mississippi john hurt on my acoustic - I've got good books with tab and notation, and a little metronome, and the recordings on my ipod, and I just plug away, going about 1/4 speed but still keeping time. I think that up to a certain point, this kind of study is just as good as a teacher. You've also got to pay attention - am I letting the open A string ring out or am I accidentally muting it, etc.. To get reallly advanced, though, I'm convinced you need a great teacher.

 

[lafromla1]

I read a thing about a psychology study that found that the truly incompetent are so incompetent that they're incapable of being aware of how incompetent they are. Thus they're never able to learn how to get better.

A Mr. Brady answer if there ever was one.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[thumb55]

to me, depending on the teacher one 30 miniute to an hour lesson a week would be the way to start.  What I mean is, if your teacher packs a lot into a short amount of time and you are able to absorbe it 30 min would be ok, if not more time is needed.

after the lesson, spend a week working on it.  To really get the most out of things you'd really have to spend at least 2 hours a night putting the lesson to work. (at least I would)

anything less than 2 hours a day is maintenance i.m.o.

I've never paid for a lesson, but I've hung out with guys over the years (most very cool and helpful) that were enough over my head that it kept me learning.  The net and DVD's are a neverending supply of lessons though. 

 

[lafromla1]

My 30 minute lesson goes like this....5-10 minutes of going over the last lesson, 10 minutes of open jam session using the stuff that was learned in the last lesson, and 10 minutes of learning new stuff to work on (i.e. theory, new riffs, etc...).  If his next lesson isn't coming in, the jam session goes to about 30 minutes.  Being older and can afford the weekly fee, I find it definitely worth it to practice with someone who can help rather than to watch dvd's or the internet, although this is where I learned the basics for the first year of attempting to learn/play.  My suggestion is that if you can't afford weekly lessons, at least go every 2-3 weeks and practice in between.  Having someone who can help you develop good habits and technique is a must.  And definitely find someone that is in tune with your type of music.  My teacher is nearly all blues, so that works out really well for me.  I don't think he would be a good metal instructor even though he knows all the chord and techniques, he's just not into it, so I'm sure that it would affect his teaching style a little.

 

[tfarny]

Oh yeah and to really learn a lot, stay off the internet forums and spend your time practicing!

 

[thumb55]

well put tfarny....

 

[Sixbender]

1. How long should a lesson be? Half hour?  Whole Hour?

Depends on the individual. If you're ready and the teacher is prepared, half an hour is standard. If you're more relaxed and like to BS a bit, plan an hour.

2. How many lessons a week?

One a week, max. If you're doing your homework and the lessons are done well, you will have plenty to practice for two weeks.

3. I play left handed should this make a difference?  The last guy I took lessons had a hard time with this.

It should actually be easier. Really. It's like looking in a mirror without having to reverse the picture.

4. Should I have music theory part of my studies?

Only if you love music. Then, absolutely.

5. What specifically should I have him or her teach me?  Where should we begin?

During a pre-lessoin interview, the coach should be able to figure out your needs.

6. Is it a waste of money? 

A good coach inspires. There's no price on that.

Every lesson I've taken from a good coach has lasted me for my whole life so far.
The lessons from "poor" teachers are good, too, in that they helped me to better pick a good coach when I need or want one.

 

[theklanch]

Oh yeah and to really learn a lot, stay off the internet forums and spend your time practicing!

Best advice yet!!!  Thanks bro!!!  

I wish I had a practice rig.... Both of my amps need a 'little' volume to sound good, which is a good way to piss off the family when they are home.  My practice time is usually limited to when nobody is home.  I know I can play acoustic, but my acoustic guitar leaves a lot to be desired.  I used to have a really nice Washburn factory Left hand and some ballbag broke into my house and stole it.  So now I have a $20 pawn shop acoustic with no radius on the fretboard at all and a cracking top.  I freakin hate that guitar not because of it's playability, but because it replaced a really nice guitar that got stolen.  I know who took it, it is one of those situations.   He is eligible for parole in 2013 I think, but not for stealing my guitar, he robbed some convenience stores a while ago and they threw the book at him.  He deserved it, but that is another post for another forum.

 

[theklanch]

Hey guys keep the responses coming this is really valuable.  I'm suprised on a guitar forum that this wasn't a topic of discussion.  I'm getting some really good advice from everybody and I genuinely appreciate your knowledge and opinions.  Thanks and like I said, keep the responses coming 

:rock-on:  arty07:  :headbang1:  :guitarplayer2:  :hello2:  ccasion14:

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I took lessons for a long time and it was a 30 min a week deal.  It went from me being 13 and not really practicing much to several hours a day.  What the lessons did help me with was learning by ear, and seeing patterns that are commonly used.  This evolved into noticing when somebody did something clever that was not in the regular set of patterns.  I took theory classes in college and it helps a lot with the construction/production part of songs, at least mentally.  I can decipher music, but not really read, and that is the one area I wish I had of learned.  But, the number one thing that the lessons did for me was I'd mention I wanted to get better at some aspect and my teacher would start teaching me songs I had never heard of.  I found a lot of new bands and music that way and a greater appreciation for the music as well.
Patrick

 

[tfarny]

Three things any good teacher can do, in any subject:
1. Help you to maintain motivation / committment. At an extreme, this could be called "inspire"
2. Guide you in your selection of materials, select things at the appropriate level of challenge (i.e., hard but not too hard to be useful)
3. show you things that it would have taken you a long time / lots of work to come up with on your own. In music, this might be transcribing some obscure music, demoing a particular technique.

How much a particular student needs of the above three things depends on the student. If you're not motivated, 1. is a good reason to get a teacher, and you might pick somebody 'fun' as opposed to someone 'serious'.
But, if you're already motivated and you know how / where to get the materials and know what your level is, basically, then really you just need a teacher for 3) and you should demand excellence there.

 

[nofenderetele]

for me it was finding a teacher i got along with well enough to sit with for an hour a week
find some one who can teach u stuff to go play with others is the best thing i used to take lessons from a guy who just taught songs now i take lessons from a guy where we spend part of every session jamming and working on song writeing we still do songs but only to reach a goal like i just learned one by metallica to learn speed picking

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Theory should always be a priority in some form or fashion.  I don't see how it's possible to learn anything without a little bit of theory.  It's necessary for a 1-4-5 progression, or the most basic difference between major and minor.  Short of becoming a "Math-rock" shredder, theory should serve you to help write and play what you mean to, rather than just write and play what you're limited to.

 

[stubhead]

I teach somewhere between 10 -14 students, depending on their school sports, grades, parent's income.... things are getting hard, obviously (It's great! More time to practice....) Different ones drop in and out through the year. One lesson a week is fine. I think reading is essential if you're young and looking for a career but it sound to me like the first thing you want to concentrate on is getting better at pulling songs off of CD's. Defining your Clear Intent is Everything - once you figure out exactly what you want to accomplish, the rest (how when what) starts to explain itself.

What is ear training? Well, when you "hack your way" through a song, what's different between your version and the right one? You'll only hear it by recording yourself.... a $30 cassette deck is adequate, the $90 four-track cassette jobs are nicer. I wouldn't worry too much about tone (r.e.: spending money on equipment) immediately, if you're working to buy equipment instead of spending that same exact time practicing on the decent equipment you already have, how is the new stuff going to help anything? If you suck at playing it*.... There are people with a wall^^ full of $5000 custom shop guitars who can't play one song right....
So, Play One Song RIGHT!

*(My students hate me, but they keep comin' back, dog knows why...)

anything less than 2 hours a day is maintenance i.m.o.

I can do my "maintenance" in about 45 minutes, but between guitar, bass & pedal steel I still average about 6 hours a day. It's not work to me, it's just what I love to do with my time. I read, internet, build stuff.... I (luckily) work at home, and I don't really like anything else as much as playing. I made my job the way it is so I can spend time doing what I like.

TV is utterly wasteful, for me at least Hollywood product has gotten so repetitive it's empty - once you're deconditioned from a few weeks off, it seems like a ludicrous way to spend time. What are you going to brag about in the nursing home - "I could watch the crap outta some TV, back in the day!" You're going to get excellent at whatever you've chosen to DO. I don't even have cable or network now, though I can still play concert & instructional DVD's. Americans complain they're busy, yet each American adult averages 4 1/2 hours of TV a day. They're strung out on it worse than a junkie, every alcoholic or crackhead in the world can quit for a month - try telling an American to turn off their TV for a week... When my students ask me for "the" secret (yeah right) I just tell them,

"Put your amp in the living room and your TV in the garage. If your family complains, put them in the garage too." Of course this never works, but it's the attitude you need. Since realistically, THE TV MUST RULE, get a dinky $100 modeler (RP150) and some open headphones so at least YOU can practice in the same room while the box assassinates everyone else's brain.

Nobody can make you love music, dude - most professional musicians have sacrificed at least one marriage and family, and I'm not advocating that. But it's all about deciding whether you're going to do what you like, do what other people like you to do, or just flush your time down the toilet meaninglessly. Most families support people doing something positive, but there's no "right" answer. Try this, though:

Every day for a week, every half hour (12:00, 12:30, 1:00, 1:30 etc.) ask yourself - "Why am I doing this right now? Could I be doing something else?" (hint: practicing....) It's amazing how much of our lives we dick away, doing stuff we don't even like.

^^P.S - Your #1 guitar never belongs in a case, on the wall, in the other room etc. It belongs with YOU.... get an extra stand for each room in your house [maybe not the bathrooms] so your guitar can follow you around like a puppy.

 

[NeilStryker]

Amen, brother.    :headbang: