Questions about staining swamp-ash - Example-Pics inside

[joe_tofu]

Hey guys,

finally - after literally years of "Yeah, let's do it" and then not doing it - I'm about to order my first Warmoth-Kit.

I want to go for a classic Telecaster and turn it into a metal-monster. And what's more metal than a filthy black-matte body-finish? Nothing, right?

I'm going for exactly this - it looks so natural!

So ... how do I do that? Unfortunatly I haven't found anything about the finish of that actual (custom-)guitar, but I came across some notes of Meshuggah's guitar-tech, whose guitars looks quite similar. Here he states, that the guitars were stained with Fiebings Black Leather Dye (the stuff, StewMac sells for staining fretboards).
http://avhguitarrepair.com/?page_id=768

Any help is totally appreciated.

 

[AutoBat]

Are you aiming to replicate that one but in 6 string form?
If so I'd suggest Swamp Ash tele body, a Warhead shaped 24 fret neck with Ebony fretboard (pick which ever main neck wood you like.  one of the exotics would go well with it)
EMG 81/85 or 81x/85x (or 60 if you prefer that over the others)
Locking tuners
Stainless steel frets
Graph tech string saver saddles

I'm not sure if Warmoth has the capabilities to pull off a finish quite like the one pictured.
Tonar is our resident guitar finishing go-to guy.

Welcome to the board.
Please be aware that Warmoth is a parts company, they don't assemble anything and all the parts are WYSIWYG.

 

[joe_tofu]

Are you aiming to replicate that one but in 6 string form?

Hey and thanks for welcoming me

Well, kind of
I want to replicate the wood-choice (Swamp-Ash-body, Maple-Neck, Ebony-fretboard) and the finish, but I want to go for passive pickups and apparently for a six-string-version of it. If I feel brave enough I also want to sculpt the heel a bit, but that goes into another sub-forum.
If it's possible, I also want to put a hipshot-bridge on it. We'll see...

I'm not sure if Warmoth has the capabilities to pull off a finish quite like the one pictured.
Tonar is our resident guitar finishing go-to guy.

Although I'm a total noob, I want to finish the guitar myself (like I said, maybe to do some additional woodworking).

 

[greywolf]

Stew-Mac sells a black powder for tinting  epoxy , just mix it with acetone and wipe it on , you can do as many coats as you need until you get the shade you desire.

The lower the grit sandpaper you use to pre finish , the more absorption you'll get

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Jack the Hack dyed a swamp ash bass blue here.  There are a lot of tips and tricks in the thread.  That ESP looks like it was dyed and washed to get the aged look.  It is not hard to do, but there will probably be quite a bit of experimentation.  Get some Ash test pieces and practice with dyes on it.  It will help you out a great deal.  I have used the Alcohol dyes from Rereanch, and several people have used the MEK dyes from LMII.  The test piece lets you know how to adjust amounts and applications and things like that.  Very helpful.  Also, the piece will look a lot different when dyed and finish is added.  Dyes by themselves seem rather mundane.  You add a little clear over the top, and wowsers, they jump at you.  Good luck
Patrick

 

[joe_tofu]

Jack the Hack dyed a swamp ash bass blue here.  There are a lot of tips and tricks in the thread.

Thanks, I'll look into it ...  :icon_thumright:

 

[Tonar8352]

Welcome to the board I hope you enjoy it.

Here is a thread where I did the finish you are after only on alder for Black Dog.
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=15729.0
You would be able to get the result you are after fairly easily just skip the shading lacquer and go right to what ever finish you want to put over the stain. If you want to fill the grain you will have to make a decision on what color you want the grain to show.
On your example it looks like they filled the grain natural first, then stained it and that is why you see the yellow highlights in the grain. If you want to have the grain really pop with the black, stain it first then shoot some wash coats of clear and then fill it with black grain filler. The grain will stand out as a really nice dark black if you choose this method.

Good luck and we look forward to progress pictures of the build.

 

[joe_tofu]

Welcome to the board I hope you enjoy it.

Here is a thread where I did the finish you are after only on alder for Black Dog.
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=15729.0
You would be able to get the result you are after fairly easily just skip the shading lacquer and go right to what ever finish you want to put over the stain.

Wow - that looks fantastic! Can you give me a headsup, how much dye you mixed with the thinner and retarder?
What finish would you recommend to get a matte, yet natural feeling surface? Some oil or a rattle can of satin lacquer?

 

[Tonar8352]

I used about 8 oz of thinner and 4 oz of retarder and mixed the black in until I got the color I was looking for on a sample board and then stained the body. I was not worried about the depth because I knew I would be shading it with a black see through lacquer, I just used the dye to highlight the grain. For you I suggest you get a sample board and play with until you get the color you want.

As far as finish goes if you want a smooth surface you will have to decide on grain filling. If you do not care about a level surface then maybe someone else can chime in on some sort of oil finish like tung oil.  I only shoot lacquers out of high-end HVLP guns; there are others here that would be more helpful that I can in that regard.

If I were finishing it to make it look like your example I would stain it, wash coat it, use a clear paste filler, shoot 4 coats of satin lacquer on it, level sand it and shoot 4 more coats of satin, let it hang for a few weeks then level sand it with wet/dry paper and then........ Here’s the tricky part I would shoot one final melt coat of satin lacquer to melt the sanding scratches out and leave it alone. Satin cannot be level sanded and polished because it will rub up glossy.

 

[joe_tofu]

I used about 8 oz of thinner and 4 oz of retarder and mixed the black in until I got the color I was looking for on a sample board and then stained the body. I was not worried about the depth because I knew I would be shading it with a black see through lacquer, I just used the dye to highlight the grain. For you I suggest you get a sample board and play with until you get the color you want.

As far as finish goes if you want a smooth surface you will have to decide on grain filling. If you do not care about a level surface then maybe someone else can chime in on some sort of oil finish like tung oil.  I only shoot lacquers out of high-end HVLP guns; there are others here that would be more helpful that I can in that regard.

If I were finishing it to make it look like your example I would stain it, wash coat it, use a clear paste filler, shoot 4 coats of satin lacquer on it, level sand it and shoot 4 more coats of satin, let it hang for a few weeks then level sand it with wet/dry paper and then........ Here’s the tricky part I would shoot one final melt coat of satin lacquer to melt the sanding scratches out and leave it alone. Satin cannot be level sanded and polished because it will rub up glossy.

Thank you very much - this is so helpful.  ccasion14:

I don't care about a perfectly leveled surface - actually I would prefer feeling the actual wood, so maybe Oil is the way to go ... let's see, what others say.

 

[tfarny]

My advice - skipping the grain fill on ash seems like a cool idea and it looks good at first, but eventually down the road, you'll realize that whatever Tonar recommended is what you should have done. I've been there!
Good luck with the project and keep us posted.

 

[joe_tofu]

My advice - skipping the grain fill on ash seems like a cool idea and it looks good at first, but eventually down the road, you'll realize that whatever Tonar recommended is what you should have done. I've been there!
Good luck with the project and keep us posted.

Haha, okay - I'll keep that in mind  :laughing11: