Question For Floyd Users

[JaySwear]

at the moment i'm saving up for my 3rd warmoth project: an 80's hair metal-inspired strat (possibly soloist). my biggest problem with my first floyd rose-equipped guitar was that it was a one-tuning guitar. so i was thinking i would get the recessed floyd rose and put a d-tuna on the guitar. i really didn't think this through until a day or two ago, and realized this wouldn't work since it's a recessed floyd. the d-tuna would need it's own recess in the guitar's top. so my plans have changed. i could either go with a regular old dive-bomb-only routing for the floyd and put a d-tuna on OR have the recessed route that i would want.

MY QUESTION: would it be possible to loosen ONLY the section of the locking nut where the E and A strings are, and drop the E string to a D? doing this might mean that the A string would need a little bit of correcting to get it back in tune as well, but is this practical at all? at first i was thinking that the loss in tension would cause the whole floyd to drop out of tune, but i don't think thats true or a d-tuna wouldn't be able to work either. has anybody tried this? would LOVE to know. a big part of my next build may depend on this :icon_biggrin: i'd really appreciate any input from somebody who has tried this, or somebody who is willing to take the 2 minutes to try this on a guitar they own. if i end up having to live with an angled neck pocket then i will, but i'd like to know how this works out before i make a decision. thanks!

QUESTION 2: would warmoth be able to angle the neck pocket properly if i ordered a showcase item, or is this something that should really be done on a custom order? just curious if anybody on the forum (or from warmoth themselves) could tell me.

 

[mullyman]

If you loosen the nut and drop the E string to D, on a recessed body, you will knock the whole thing out of tune. How  far, I have no idea. The D Tuna doesn't throw it out of tune because the trem isn't floating, there's nowhere for the trem to fall back into.

For myself, I've never been a fan of floating Floyd's. They are a pain in the ass tuning when you change strings and I personally have no reason to pull up on the trem. Not my style. I've had 5 or 6 guitars in the past with D tuna's on them, and my Music Man has one on it now, and have never had one problem with it. Pull it out and it drops to D, push it back in and it's back to E. I've only had to make minor adjustments to it, probably once a year. I personally feel that the D-Tuna is probably one of the most underrated inventions of our time. I love mine.
MULLY

 

[The Norwegian Guy]

Build a doubbleneck strat, std tuning on one of the necks and "what-ever-you-desire-tuning" on the other.

Problem solved
:redflag:

 

[SustainerPlayer]

A work-around could be installing a Tremol-No.

http://www.tremolno.com/

The Tremol-No have 3 modes: Full floating, dive-only and hardtail.

With that you can lock the FR and detune and later tune up and unlock.

Downside is that you can't do whammy-bar trick while detuned and that the operation (locking the tremol-no, unlocking the nut, detuning, locking the nut) will take some time, so it is not likely you will do that live unless you have a guitartech standing by.

The Tremol-No itself works fine. I have had it on both a 6 and 7 string with FR.

EDIT: Ah - saw now that you only want drop-D. Then tremol-no will be a major overkill. - Sorry.

 

[Alfang]

I'm with Mully here, Not a big fan of floating trems, but I've never tried a tremel-no or any other stabilizing device,  I do have two guitars with recessed floyds one of which does have a d-tuna.  I'm not a big fan of the d-tuna either

You have to set up the t-tuna with your fine tuner backed out as far as you can, and when you tune up and tighten down the locking nut, your not left with much adjustment on the fine tuner in oreder for the d-tuna to work properly.

and as soon as the string stretches just enough, your screwed and have to mess with the nut some more. it's a good concept, but I think most people use it for a bit then give up on it, and just build another guitar for drop D tuning

 

[mullyman]

You have to set up the t-tuna with your fine tuner backed out as far as you can, and when you tune up and tighten down the locking nut, your not left with much adjustment on the fine tuner in oreder for the d-tuna to work properly.

and as soon as the string stretches just enough, your screwed and have to mess with the nut some more. it's a good concept, but I think most people use it for a bit then give up on it, and just build another guitar for drop D tuning

There is a technique for setting it up. Pull the D-tuna to the out position, unscrew the fine tuner until it's all the way out then screw it back down until it just touches the edge of the D-tuna with no pressure on it, tune the 6th string to D, lock it down, push in the D-tuna, adjust the little tiny hex screw on the side of the D-tuna.....that is your fine adjuster. It takes a little messing around with it but once you get it you're set. I've never had any issues with mine. Just make sure you unscrew that side nut a bit before you get into it or you'll clamp it down and the D-tuna won't pull out.
MULLY
a lot of people miss the fact that that little hex nut on the side of the D-Tuna is the fine tuning adjuster for it.

 

[DangerousR6]

QUESTION 2: would warmoth be able to angle the neck pocket properly if i ordered a showcase item, or is this something that should really be done on a custom order? just curious if anybody on the forum (or from warmoth themselves) could tell me.

yes they will cut the neck pocket to the correct angle on showcase bodies....

If you loosen the nut and drop the E string to D, on a recessed body, you will knock the whole thing out of tune. How  far, I have no idea. The D Tuna doesn't throw it out of tune because the trem isn't floating, there's nowhere for the trem to fall back into.

Sorry Mully ,but on that one I'll have to call bs. I have plenty of axes with rec'd floyds and when set up "correctly" there is no issue of tunage when loosening the nut clamps. And even with a rec'd floyd rout there is plenty of room for upward pull on the trem. The only place where this might be an issue is on a LoPro version, like Ibanez use.... :icon_biggrin:

 

[mullyman]

I know loosening the nut won't Drop the tuning but I find it unusual that the tuning won't go out if you unlock AND drop the E to D. I stand corrected if I'm wrong on that.

 

[DangerousR6]

I know loosening the nut won't Drop the tuning but I find it unusual that the tuning won't go out if you unlock AND drop the E to D. I stand corrected if I'm wrong on that.

I do it all the time..... arty07:

 

[mullyman]

Then I stand corrected. I assumed with dropping the tension on the E string that it would throw a floating trem out of tune. A lot of tension being released there.
MULLY

 

[DangerousR6]

Then I stand corrected. I assumed with dropping the tension on the E string that it would throw a floating trem out of tune. A lot of tension being released there.
MULLY

The locking nut doesn't act like a tuner holding tension. It is merely to lock down the string once tuned...

 

[mullyman]

Then I stand corrected. I assumed with dropping the tension on the E string that it would throw a floating trem out of tune. A lot of tension being released there.
MULLY

The locking nut doesn't act like a tuner holding tension. It is merely to lock down the string once tuned...

Yeah, I know that, but a floating trem is held in position by a combination of the string tension and the trem springs. It just seems to me that loosening a string would allow the trem to move out of position.

 

[Paul-less]

On a floating floyd, if you lower the pitch of ANY string, the others will raise in pitch. If you raise the pitch of ANY string, the others will lower in pitch. Hence why the the act of tuning a floyd rose is one of the activities forced upon roadies in the 5th layer of hell.

To agree with others, floating vibratos are overrated. Yea, making the guitar meow like a cat is cool, but not really useful. The best thing I did to my floyd was to block it off. I am actually thinking of blocking the other side also, adding a ton of springs to the claw, and hopefully it will act like a hardtail, while sounding like a floyd.

 

[Alfang]

It must be disagree with alfang month, Mully I know how the F it works and i'm telling you that you don't have very much play in your fine tuners when using a d-tuna.
  End of my input here, you and dbw must be buddies

You know what guys, i try to put positive input most of the time, and some of you just continue to preface your arguments with " I disagree with Alfang" or whatever.

I'm done with you guys,  no more positive input from me, from now on, i disagree with dbw and mully on everything, even when I agree with them they disagree with me.

I don't get it,  and Max, I'm fine thanks.

You don't score points by bashing alfang, so piss off, we're done.  This has been a long time comming, I'm done goodbye

 

[mullyman]

It must be disagree with alfang month, Mully I know how the F it works and i'm telling you that you don't have very much play in your fine tuners when using a d-tuna.
  End of my input here, you and dbw must be buddies

You know what guys, i try to put positive input most of the time, and some of you just continue to preface your arguments with " I disagree with Alfang" or whatever.

I'm done with you guys,   no more positive input from me, from now on, i disagree with dbw and mully on everything, even when I agree with them they disagree with me.

I don't get it,   and Max, I'm fine thanks.

You don't score points by bashing alfang, so piss off, we're done.  This has been a long time comming, I'm done goodbye

Dude, what in the hell are you talking about? I never bashed you, matter of fact I challenge anyone to go through my posts and find one instance where I've bashed anyone. I wasn't even disagreeing with you. You posted about the D-tuna and how it doesn't work very well so I posted about how to set one up. No more, no less. I wasn't calling you out. For anything.

As for not having much play with your fine tuners, you are 100% correct. Matter of fact there should be no play with the fine tuners. Once you get it tuned you should do the fine tuning with that little nut on the side of the D-Tuna and never touch the Floyd's fine tuner.

Sorry you got so pissed but I honestly wasn't disagreeing with you at all.
MULLY

 

[Patrick]

that seems a little out of the blue  :icon_scratch:

 

[Dan025]

i dont understand why there is so much confusion here. floating trems find the point where pull is equal in both directions, if you reduce the pull on one string the trem moves pulling more tension on the other strings, not rocket science.

i've been considering constructing something to help this, a setup with one preloaded spring, the concept is used by tremking. there is a seperate spring bar that is blocked against a stationary part of the bridge, the trem block rests on that bar, when you pull up there are fewer springs helping you, when the trem goes into the rest position the extra bar has a spring preloaded to x pounds so the pressure needs to meet that value before the block moves any more, once the pressure is met then it works like a normal trem, the springs on the block and the ones on the bar all help returm the trem but the bar stops helping once it hits it's stopping point.

another idea i had was to have a dual knife edge on each side, one stacked over the other. or just a very flat surface in place of the knife edge so there is effectively 2 pivot points at the top and bottom edge. when both points are in contact with the posts which in my design will have a strait area to match the flat surface or 2 slight grooves to prevent sliding the bridge is in the rest position. it would take X ounces on the bar in either direction to move the bridge at all. a set return point where as with the zero friction single pivot nonsense everyone tries to perfect will move to some degree with any pressure in either direction, and even with near zero friction may have some tendancy not to return to exactly the right spot.

 

[Cagey]

I think you'd have the return problem you mentioned, and also you'd hear when you rocked over the flat spot.

 

[Dan025]

I think you'd have the return problem you mentioned, and also you'd hear when you rocked over the flat spot.

no i think there would be no return problem, and who cares if you here it, i think it'll be subtle

 

[Cagey]

Well, get a standard trem and take it to a machinist and have it modified, then install it and see how it works out.