Project cars

[swarfrat]

Trust me, the last thing I'd ever do is bash Canada

Aww but its such great fun!

 

[Dan025]

I know that there's a messload more to Canada than K-cars, Red Green and Trailer Park Boys. A day doesn't go by that I don't play at least one April Wine, Kim Mitchell, Max Webster or Rush track. Seriously some of the best and hardest working musicians have come out of the great nation of Canada, and sadly have not received nearly half of the recognition that they deserved for the hard work they put in. Many of the chops I know I didn't even know until I was exposed to the music when I would listen to Toronto's Q107.

As a matter of fact, "Sign of the Gypsy Queen" is playing on my PC right now.

Trust me, the last thing I'd ever do is bash Canada--I have too much respect for the nation to do that.

I didn't take your post as bashing Canada at all. Just thought I'd throw up some racing examples.

And theres nothing wrong with a K car, it's a nice reliable automobile........... :icon_thumright:

and if the k car happens to have a 2.2 liter turbo 4cyl in it it will likely spank all the rice rockets zipping around the streets today. seriously i saw a fwd caravan with a 2.2 run 12.0's in the quarter. and it didn't take that much money. turbos are fun!

 

[SeanM]

I know that there's a messload more to Canada than K-cars, Red Green and Trailer Park Boys. A day doesn't go by that I don't play at least one April Wine, Kim Mitchell, Max Webster or Rush track. Seriously some of the best and hardest working musicians have come out of the great nation of Canada, and sadly have not received nearly half of the recognition that they deserved for the hard work they put in. Many of the chops I know I didn't even know until I was exposed to the music when I would listen to Toronto's Q107.

As a matter of fact, "Sign of the Gypsy Queen" is playing on my PC right now.

Trust me, the last thing I'd ever do is bash Canada--I have too much respect for the nation to do that.

I didn't take your post as bashing Canada at all. Just thought I'd throw up some racing examples.

And theres nothing wrong with a K car, it's a nice reliable automobile........... :icon_thumright:

and if the k car happens to have a 2.2 liter turbo 4cyl in it it will likely spank all the rice rockets zipping around the streets today. seriously i saw a fwd caravan with a 2.2 run 12.0's in the quarter. and it didn't take that much money. turbos are fun!

Turbos can be scary fun. With the right setup you can generate insane power. I personally like what Renault did in the 60 or 70;s with their rally cars, Turbo fed super chargers, eliminates turbo lag and then after the turbos spool, the power loss from the super charger disappears. Volkswagen is currently doing something similar, where they are using an AC clutch to engage and disengage a super charger while the turbo spools up, once the turbo is spooled (around 3000rpm) the turbo takes over and  the supercharger disengages.  there are some issues with the system, the AC clutch is loud and prone to slipping due to the torque from the suppercharger. There is currently a system in the works to correct that issue, but thats all I can say at this time.

Sorry if that seems very rushed and to the point but my I.E is not co-operating with me right now .

 

[crash]

I know that there's a messload more to Canada than K-cars, Red Green and Trailer Park Boys. A day doesn't go by that I don't play at least one April Wine, Kim Mitchell, Max Webster or Rush track. Seriously some of the best and hardest working musicians have come out of the great nation of Canada, and sadly have not received nearly half of the recognition that they deserved for the hard work they put in. Many of the chops I know I didn't even know until I was exposed to the music when I would listen to Toronto's Q107.

As a matter of fact, "Sign of the Gypsy Queen" is playing on my PC right now.

Trust me, the last thing I'd ever do is bash Canada--I have too much respect for the nation to do that.

Don't forget about the Dodge Omni GLHS.  I see one around the autocross tracks every now and then.
I didn't take your post as bashing Canada at all. Just thought I'd throw up some racing examples.

And theres nothing wrong with a K car, it's a nice reliable automobile........... :icon_thumright:

and if the k car happens to have a 2.2 liter turbo 4cyl in it it will likely spank all the rice rockets zipping around the streets today. seriously i saw a fwd caravan with a 2.2 run 12.0's in the quarter. and it didn't take that much money. turbos are fun!

 

[SeanM]

UPDATE!

Just did some catching up and finally nailed down my front suspensions geometry minus the rack toe arms. I will be using Bilstien Coil overs in all four corners.

Let me know what you guys think. Keep in mind, there is still no extra bracing. Trying to find time to get to it.

 

[Miskatonic]

If I ever have the money I would like to build the following.


This:

With This:

And This:

And This:

 

[Dan025]

UPDATE!

Just did some catching up and finally nailed down my front suspensions geometry minus the rack toe arms. I will be using Bilstien Coil overs in all four corners.

Let me know what you guys think. Keep in mind, there is still no extra bracing. Trying to find time to get to it.

that looks good, but i dont see any anti dive geometry in the suspension, not everything has it and im not sure if you need it but all my gm cars have the upper a-arms rear pivot lower than the front pivot and the lower a-arm is opposite so when the brakes try to twist the spindle with the wheel the forward force on the upper ball joint drives the spindle down/chassis up  and rearward force on the lower ball joint does the same through the lower a-arm. but i would imagine a car that low and light doesn't dive much and you may be able to over do the geometry a bit causing some weird situations.

 

[mayfly]

Anti-dive is great - but I've had situations where some odd stuff did happen.  Like first gen BMW bikes whatever-that-anti-dive-front-suspension-was-called.  On those the front end would definitely go up on you when you hit the brakes hard.  I never lost traction, but the front end going up mid corner did make me change steering to hold my line.  very wierd.

To be honest, for a simple car like this I'd not do it - but it's not my car  ccasion14:

Chassis looks great BTW...

 

[Dan025]

problem with anti-dive on a bike is different riders have a different cg, different weight, different riding position. you have to under do it or not do it at all, infact you always want to under do it so you have a gentle transition, if you calculate 100% anti dive then when you hit the brakes it basically acts rigid and would feel funny and the car might slide, im guessing the amount needed on a car like this is so small it's not worth doing because the op seems to be very knowledgable about chassis design.

 

[SeanM]

Anti-dive can be done on a car like this, and some drivers may like feel of it, but from my days racing Formula 4 cars I found that with the way I drive it tends to create some under-steer.  In this case where the weight balance is virtually 50/50 (estimated 47/53) along with the weight and power the nose dive through the corners helps to load the front tires. Provided the rest of the suspensions is adjusted to accommodate the load transfer.

That being said, the layout that is shown is by no means the best way to go about it. That is a base line so that I can continue the overall design, final tweaks and adjustments will be made during final planning and fabrication once the motor, tranny, rear end, and all the major components come together. The arms and mounts will be fabricated by me, not the shop that is doing the rest of my cutting and bending, to allow for on the fly adjustments and during tuning if I realize I need to change something, I can always redo it.  Worse comes to worse, I can go total vintage and put solid axles front and back  :icon_thumright:

 

[bagman67]

If I ever have the money I would like to build the following.


This:

With This:

And This:

And This:

Needs a Floyd.

 

[Dan025]

Anti-dive can be done on a car like this, and some drivers may like feel of it, but from my days racing Formula 4 cars I found that with the way I drive it tends to create some under-steer.  In this case where the weight balance is virtually 50/50 (estimated 47/53) along with the weight and power the nose dive through the corners helps to load the front tires. Provided the rest of the suspensions is adjusted to accommodate the load transfer.

That being said, the layout that is shown is by no means the best way to go about it. That is a base line so that I can continue the overall design, final tweaks and adjustments will be made during final planning and fabrication once the motor, tranny, rear end, and all the major components come together. The arms and mounts will be fabricated by me, not the shop that is doing the rest of my cutting and bending, to allow for on the fly adjustments and during tuning if I realize I need to change something, I can always redo it.  Worse comes to worse, I can go total vintage and put solid axles front and back  :icon_thumright:

well that way the wheels are always perpendicular to the ground right?, at least until you hit a bump. anyway ive seen cars go pretty fast with solid axles front and back, but it is usually in a strait line or on the dirt.

 

[SeanM]

Anti-dive can be done on a car like this, and some drivers may like feel of it, but from my days racing Formula 4 cars I found that with the way I drive it tends to create some under-steer.  In this case where the weight balance is virtually 50/50 (estimated 47/53) along with the weight and power the nose dive through the corners helps to load the front tires. Provided the rest of the suspensions is adjusted to accommodate the load transfer.

That being said, the layout that is shown is by no means the best way to go about it. That is a base line so that I can continue the overall design, final tweaks and adjustments will be made during final planning and fabrication once the motor, tranny, rear end, and all the major components come together. The arms and mounts will be fabricated by me, not the shop that is doing the rest of my cutting and bending, to allow for on the fly adjustments and during tuning if I realize I need to change something, I can always redo it.  Worse comes to worse, I can go total vintage and put solid axles front and back  :icon_thumright:

well that way the wheels are always perpendicular to the ground right?, at least until you hit a bump. anyway ive seen cars go pretty fast with solid axles front and back, but it is usually in a strait line or on the dirt.

I was thinking more along the lines of Formula VW solid axles, Which are sprung axles, but non-independent. Of course that idea was just a joke.  Currently in the process of changing the firewall/interior panels (made the cockpit to short originally) then it will be onto the engine/tranny mount and bracing. 

 

[Jusatele]

My experience with anti dive is all motorcycle from the mid 80s, I do not think it was a good idea then as it seemed to be under developed, from there I went into land speed racing and being a form of strait line racing we did not bother much with anti dive.
So saying that too set this up, who has developed antidive and where can you get non advertisement information on it?

 

[Dan025]

anti dive is basically the same as anti squat rear geometry in reverse, research how drag cars are setup, same priciples are used when you setup the roll center on independant front suspension. the problem is that engineers tend to over design it. but you'd be surprised what has some anti squat or anti dive built in but to a lower level. old american cars may have both because they really need it badly but no one advertised it.

and you bring up motor cycles again, that situation is tricky. too much variation in riders. you need to balance the lifting force to the weight transfer and figure where the force is applied to the vehicle. for that you need to know the cg and something called the instant center (or atleast that's what it's called when you setup anti-squat) but the cg is a big unknown because the rider can be anywhere from 15% to 50% the total weight of the vehicle and may have very different riding positions and height. the best strategy i can come up with but haven't put into practice is to start with too little anti-dive but make the geometry gain lifting force as it dives so it naturally the balance and resists bottoming. the other tricky part is the caster(rake on a motor cycle) changes through the motion. i know aprila(spelling?) made a bike that had no fork and there was a single sided swing arm that held a spindle in the center of the front wheel. that arm would give some anti-dive but looking at it i'd think it was mounted too low and too far back. also some springer and girder front ends will have some anti-dive but would be to heavy or not rigid enough for racing.

 

[SeanM]

Hey guys, I was trying to have some design updates for you this week but work has been hell so I haven't had much time. I wanted to post up one interesting development.

One of the new guys at work has put me in contact with a guy he used to work with who designs subframes for the big three. It looks like I might be able to get some "Engineering Samples" to use as transplant/donors for this project.

 

[Dan025]

sounds sweet  :icon_thumright: anything exotic? or unusual about the "engineering samples?"

 

[SeanM]

sounds sweet  :icon_thumright: anything exotic? or unusual about the "engineering samples?"

Can't really go into detail as per specifics but something along the lines of a rear sub frame from a rear wheel drive chrysler (re-incarnation of mythical muscle cars included)