Project cars

[SeanM]

Hey Guys,

It's been a couple weeks since I've been on here, I've been working on a design for my next project. While I love building guitars I figure it's time to start working on my true passion. After looking around online for possible ideas for a project car, I've decided to build a Lotus Super Seven Replica, It'll be a ground up custom design and build, not a kit car. It will give me a chance to get back into suspension design again.

Specs for the Car are:

Chassis: Based on a McSorley 7+4 Replica Chassis
Suspension: Fully independent Front and Rear with full rising rate geometry
Drive train: Nissan 240SX KA24DE engine, tranny, and rear end
Brakes: Wilwood Mustang 2 setup w/ 11" rotors and 4 Piston Calipers

Interior will be sparse, Seats, Steering wheel, Pedals, shifter, and harnesses. Here are some images of what I'm shooting for in the end and my current design progress.  Is anyone else here working on a Project car? Or any plans to start one?

 

 

[Big V]

Well, at school, we were going to cut a VW Golf in three parts, and weld the front and rear part together, so that would be a ridiculously short car, where you would drive fom the back seat. BUT, it didn't happen. :sad1:

On your project; I think that kind of car is seriously fudging cool! Those cars are no bullshit, no addons, only what you absolutely need.
Seriously, you HAVE to make a video out of it when you're done.
Good luck, mate! :blob7:

 

[mayfly]

I've done cars and bikes (that's motorcycles) in the past. 

The only thing that I suggest that if this is the first time, start with at least a chassis kit.  I know I know - you want to do it all yourself and all that.  But what you are about to undertake is a colossal project for your first car.  My advice is do not start from scratch.

 

[Dan025]

if you want to build a chassis you need to build a jig, if you start free handing it all the welds shrink and really twist things. and even the jig might need several jigs to build in the first place. it can be difficult to measure parallelism and perpendicularity, once it is all together so you need a sturdy and strait base to work from.

the renderings look really good.maybe some more triangulation up front to stiffen it up but i never worked with a car that small so you might not need much.

i dont have any plans for any scratch builds like that, just working on an old chevy monte carlo.

 

[Jusatele]

Are you planning any sub chassis, or allowing that thing to twist itself up with torque?

 

[OzziePete]

Wow that is one serious vehicle project.... :icon_thumright:.. I attempted to restore an old Rambler many years ago but that was scratched before it even started when the engine was misfuelled and ruined. I have a cousin who built his own Clubman kit car, but he wrote that off one day when he got something on his windscreen and couldn't see, ending up in the bushes and 3 days in hospital..he barely remembers anything about that day so we are not sure what really happened. I think he has gone onto do other kit cars, tho he has a family now and  abig responsible job that keeps him busy.

 

[SeanM]

Maybe I should have Clarified my technical skills first.

This is my first PERSONAL Project. I have several years of experience building chassis, starting with the Formula SAE project, then branching into Formula 4 and GTD. I have my CWB Papers so welding and jigging are no issue for me. I worked for over a year as a designer/fabricator for a structural fab shop. I am currently a product Designer for an automotive tier 1.

Dan025 and justatele: That model is a preliminary model based on the readily available McSorley kit, I downloaded the Cad package and have been modifying as I go. That is by no means a completely braced chassis. If anything thats probably 30% at most. Once I get my suspension geometry done and get the mounting locations for the engine and tranny, I can properly brace the frame. 

Still currently in the planning stage, looking @ a 4 year project minimum. All chassis tubing will be cut and bent by a local shop based on drawings extracted from the models. Car will be built on a frame table, engine will be resurrected and tuned by a local engine shop. Generally these types of project are known as Locost (Low Cost) 7's because they are generally scrap yard donor cars transplanted into a frame. This is a more professional build, with a significantly higher build budget. If you guys are interested I will post updates as the design progresses.

Just an FYI. That Cad package there is actually very similar bracing wise to the original lotus 7 frame, mind you that car had 80hp, so naturally my frame will need some more bracing.

 

[AutoBat]

I have future plans for a Caterham 7 Roadsport.
So please keep us (me) informed of your progress.

 

[Jusatele]

I am extremely inerested in the build, I have done a few projects of my own, recently I stretched a 2004 Wrangler TJ frame and put  a 1970 cj6 body on it, adapting the modern Tranny and drive train to the original Buick V6 in the CJ6. I call it my TJ6, I also run a stock 67 CJ5. Some of my more original projects was putting a entire 4x4 system under a XJ6, not a offroad system, but a system that allowed us to go up the mountain to go skiing any time we wanted. Turned out nice, used a K5 drive line as a basis and when we were done it was barely noticeable.

 

[Graffiti62]

I have ambitions to eventually start a very similar project, once I finally have the resources and the location to do so. I stumbled upon a company out of Bratenton, FL that has engineered a Lotusesque kit car, called the Stalker.

http://bruntonauto.com/

The kit uses a LOT of off-the-shelf GM parts, whcih appeals to me, due to my familiarity with GM, and the availibility of new and used parts. The company has had a lot of success using GM V6 engines, like the 3800, but I would personally use the ECOTEC 4 that GM has recently developed. These things, once done right, can give you nearly the same performance figures as a 6, but at the same time, you have a lot less weight.

 

[crash]

One of these years, I'm going to build a Factory 5 Cobra.

Until then, I have my Lincoln Mark VIII that I have been modifying for years.  Sometimes I wonder if it will ever be "done"  I've been building this as an all around car which I take drag racing and road racing.  Here is a picture at a local track.  Like the blue painters tape as my number?

 

[SeanM]

I have ambitions to eventually start a very similar project, once I finally have the resources and the location to do so. I stumbled upon a company out of Bratenton, FL that has engineered a Lotusesque kit car, called the Stalker.

http://bruntonauto.com/

The kit uses a LOT of off-the-shelf GM parts, whcih appeals to me, due to my familiarity with GM, and the availibility of new and used parts. The company has had a lot of success using GM V6 engines, like the 3800, but I would personally use the ECOTEC 4 that GM has recently developed. These things, once done right, can give you nearly the same performance figures as a 6, but at the same time, you have a lot less weight.

I have seen these kits, the unfortunate thing is that "kit cars" as far as the federal government (in canada) are illegal for road use. But the provincial governments allow them to be licensed. It's some obscure loop hole. But that being said importing a kit from the states or across the pond, most of the time customs impounds the shipment and does not allow it into the country unless you can prove that it is for track use only. So it's either build from a Canadian kit or start from scratch.

This allows me to develop my own chassis (that may eventually become a kit) with parts that I am comfortable working with and to my exact specifications.

Jusatele: Those off roaders sound pretty  sweet, I've always wanted to build a purpose built rock crawler, or even an unstoppable trailer truck.

Crash: I know what you mean about wondering if a car will ever be completely done. I've been helping a buddy build a mustang for 5 years now, it seems like every winter when the thing gets pulled off the road, we've got new ideas and plans and then it's 4-5 months of work just to get it done again for the summer. 

 

[mayfly]

Hmmm - you're in Canada and have all that experience?

I'm in Canada and was considering a 32 deuce kit from the states, but ran into the same issues that you did.  Do you have any recommendations for someone who want's to build an old style hot rod ?

 

[Dan025]

very cool. i find it weird to run into so many hobbyist or engineering types here on a guitar forum. but it is nice that many of us have that common interest. can't wait to see it done,  im not sure if those cars are for me, i like roadsters but more like the traditional british and italian roadters, or 1930's american roadsters turned into hot rods. i like the concept of a go-cart for the street with formula one like track performance but it seems like too much of an investment for something with such limited use. i would build one but not till after i had many other cars on my list. and im not in a financial position to do any of that right now.

one of the more radical things ive seen done with those things was building a custom crankcase to accept 2 4cyl motor cycle cylinder housings and the appropriate heads and cams running through a common crank. you get a v-8 typically in excess of 400hp with near formula one revability. one guy quoted a rev limiter at 22,000rpm which is greater than the formula one rules allow. imagine what that would sound like driving down the street!

 

[SeanM]

Hmmm - you're in Canada and have all that experience?

I'm in Canada and was considering a 32 deuce kit from the states, but ran into the same issues that you did.  Do you have any recommendations for someone who want's to build an old style hot rod ?

I'm not sure what you mean by "you're in canada and have all that experiance?" The racing/custom car culture here is just as dynamic if not more then the culture in the states. We do a good job of hiding it on this side of the border, but if you look for it, it is there.

As for a 32 deuce, I honestly have no idea. The only thing I can suggest would be to contact a shop that builds customs like the one you mentioned (Vampire Customs in Bradford, Ontario) comes to mind, and see if they have any suggestions. I have even heard of shops like that being able to skirt the border issue, because they are a certified shop. They may even be able to import the body and chassis for you to do your project.

Dan025: I have seen those mini V8's in action and they are quite a piece of work. The one I have seen was an LMP2 car with 2 hyabusa engines sharing a common crank. Making it a 2.6L V8 reving to 20,000RPM. They are amazing pieces of machinery.

 

[mayfly]

I'm not sure what you mean by "you're in canada and have all that experiance?" 

what I meant was - "Hey - you seem knowledgeable and you know about Canadian border issues.  Can I ask you a question?"

 

[Graffiti62]

I know of a couple of states in the USA that can be kind of hard-ons about kit car regulations and stuff like that, but I didn't know that Canada would have a national ban on kit cars--to me, it seems like it should be a provincial decision. I know in Wisconsin, if you build a kit car or a car from scratch, you have to receive a VIN plate from the Department of Transportation, and license the vehicle as a "Hobbyist" vehicle. I can't see that your privincial government wouldn't have something similar. One suggestion is to talk to the kit car manufacturer and see if they know some dos or don'ts in regards to getting the kit to Canada. I don't think you can get into the same kind of trouble as you would if you sold a bong in Pennsylvania (do a search on Tommy Chong if you don't get the reference)

One angle to go on it would be to do something with a true Canadian influence. Here are some examples:

 

[SeanM]

I know of a couple of states in the USA that can be kind of hard-ons about kit car regulations and stuff like that, but I didn't know that Canada would have a national ban on kit cars--to me, it seems like it should be a provincial decision. I know in Wisconsin, if you build a kit car or a car from scratch, you have to receive a VIN plate from the Department of Transportation, and license the vehicle as a "Hobbyist" vehicle. I can't see that your privincial government wouldn't have something similar. One suggestion is to talk to the kit car manufacturer and see if they know some dos or don'ts in regards to getting the kit to Canada. I don't think you can get into the same kind of trouble as you would if you sold a bong in Pennsylvania (do a search on Tommy Chong if you don't get the reference)

One angle to go on it would be to do something with a true Canadian influence. Here are some examples:

It does seem to be a similar situation here in Canada, Except the Canadian Government does not like to let people Import kits for reasons that I have not really looked into. If you build a car and have receipts that say you purchased a "kit" (for example, all my chassis tubes will be cut at a local fab shop, and invoiced as "Lotus 7 Chassis Kit") then it can be licensed as a 1963 Lotus 7 "Replica" as long as it passes a standard safety inspection, then you can get your vin plate and license plates.

And when I think of Canadian automotive culture I think:


Ron Fellows

Multimatic

Thats just two random examples.

Cheers

 

[Graffiti62]

I know that there's a messload more to Canada than K-cars, Red Green and Trailer Park Boys. A day doesn't go by that I don't play at least one April Wine, Kim Mitchell, Max Webster or Rush track. Seriously some of the best and hardest working musicians have come out of the great nation of Canada, and sadly have not received nearly half of the recognition that they deserved for the hard work they put in. Many of the chops I know I didn't even know until I was exposed to the music when I would listen to Toronto's Q107.

As a matter of fact, "Sign of the Gypsy Queen" is playing on my PC right now.

Trust me, the last thing I'd ever do is bash Canada--I have too much respect for the nation to do that.

 

[SeanM]

I know that there's a messload more to Canada than K-cars, Red Green and Trailer Park Boys. A day doesn't go by that I don't play at least one April Wine, Kim Mitchell, Max Webster or Rush track. Seriously some of the best and hardest working musicians have come out of the great nation of Canada, and sadly have not received nearly half of the recognition that they deserved for the hard work they put in. Many of the chops I know I didn't even know until I was exposed to the music when I would listen to Toronto's Q107.

As a matter of fact, "Sign of the Gypsy Queen" is playing on my PC right now.

Trust me, the last thing I'd ever do is bash Canada--I have too much respect for the nation to do that.

I didn't take your post as bashing Canada at all. Just thought I'd throw up some racing examples.

And theres nothing wrong with a K car, it's a nice reliable automobile........... :icon_thumright: