Pricing your Warmoth Builds

[rob91bob]

Just curious how everyone prices your Warmoth builds? Materials plus labor? Just materials and a straight up price on assembly? Just mark up the price of materials?

 

[bagman67]

Honestly, for a plain-vanilla build (i.e., no exotic lumber or top-shelf parts), I look at what an off-the-shelf guitar of the same type goes for, and go with that. For a fancy one, get ready to experience a burning sensation, because buddy, the market doesn't care what you paid for a fancy part. 

As a hobbyist, I don't expect ever to recover the cost of my time (which, in my actual profession, I can bill at $200-$300/hour), since I don't actually have cred as a builder.  Parts markup?  If I'm selling a guitar and emphasizing that it's made of Warmoth parts, it is by definition not a factory guitar, but instead a partscaster.  Nobody pays top dollar for a partscaster.  If you want to make money at this, the name of the game is VOLUME or else special-order work where you're getting paid time-and-materials, with materials marked up to whatever your customer will endure. If you're just looking to shed some gear, part it out or expect to take a net loss.

 

[Cagey]

It has to be considered that all the profit (plus some, in some cases) has already been taken out of a partscaster build of any sort. Unless you're an OEM with special deals from parts suppliers, you're paying retail for everything. It's difficult in the extreme to mark it up again, and in fact since there's often a loss of warranty coverage or liability, you have to mark it down. So, you can't even break even unless you add in your assembly/labor cost, which may get you back to even, but not likely. There just isn't that much to assembling a guitar from prefabricated parts. When I've sold guitars, I've felt like I was doing good to get back 60% of what I had into it. If you watch the ebay sell prices (not the listed prices or those that don't sell at all), you'll see partscasters are worse than boats for resale value. They're sometimes a good deal for buyers, but the sellers never make jack. The only question is ever how much they lose, and it's usually 50% or greater.

 

[AirCap]

I don't remember ever buying any new Warmoth parts for resale. When clients want something customized, I recommend Warmoth (because of the high quality) and they can order it, or I will. Any profit I make will be from parts (that the client doesn't purchase on his own), finishing, assembly and setup. Back in the 80's Ken and Paul actually GAVE me some stuff out of the goodness of their hearts, but I made no attempt to make a killing marking it up. (it was for a promotion - the old International Guitar Month thing held in April)

 

[mayfly]

I've adopted a model where the customer orders the parts (and pays for shipping/import duty) and I just charge time for assy and setup.  For the latter I just charge by the hour.  Seems to work.

 

[TBurst Std]

I’m the same way.  Used the same model when I made custom golf clubs.
Parts, etc are a pass through expense. Only profit from
them if any was from bulk buys, discounts etc.  Profit was derived from my labor. 

 

[Unwound G]

I don't remember ever buying any new Warmoth parts for resale. When clients want something customized, I recommend Warmoth (because of the high quality) and they can order it, or I will. Any profit I make will be from parts (that the client doesn't purchase on his own), finishing, assembly and setup. Back in the 80's Ken and Paul actually GAVE me some stuff out of the goodness of their hearts, but I made no attempt to make a killing marking it up. (it was for a promotion - the old International Guitar Month thing held in April)

Same here.  I can remember Ken and Paul giving us builders 30% discount on all bodies and necks.  That was the time when it was all catalog mail-order sales.  Now we buy like everyone else but I have to say I learnt my craft from those days when we can really try out custom options risking only 70% of the catalog cost.

 

[Hendrix]

for the DIYer , most of them are not made living on what they're building. never can put a real price tag on it.

Remember when I was a little kid, building model aircraft, mostly part of the fun is on buildings processes, not the end result.

when growing up, you also thanks for that processes, what you have learned from all kind of mistakes, which not allowed to make when you doing some jobs or made a living on it, need to play safe and may be doing the same thing over and over again.

so the most valuable thing we doing here is that we can do what we like ourself and not need to do the same thing over and over again. that is a priceless price tag.

 

[musicispeace]

For me I just look at it like I get a guitar customized specifically to me for much less than a Fender custom shop guitar when its all said and done. No intention of selling any of them. The couple of guys I have known that build and sell to a market have worked out closer to a wholesale deal with other parts makers and one has mostly an overseas client base who likes his stuff and is willing to pay for it. The other does his "vision" and finds a steady trickle of like minded people who buy from him. Neither builds as their sole way of making a living. Neither orders from Warmoth because they don't get a price break. Conversely, on the more established end of builders, I think Bill Crook gets his necks from USA Custom Guitars and sometimes uses Callaham bridges and he is able to mark his final product up enough (and has buyers at that price) to make it work. He also has a long standing business relationship with Brad Paisley who has bought many guitars from Bill. The guy in Idaho who builds guitars for Billy Gibbons and does prototypes for Gibson and Fender at their request does quite well.

 

[Unwound G]

For me I just look at it like I get a guitar customized specifically to me for much less than a Fender custom shop guitar when its all said and done. No intention of selling any of them. The couple of guys I have known that build and sell to a market have worked out closer to a wholesale deal with other parts makers and one has mostly an overseas client base who likes his stuff and is willing to pay for it. The other does his "vision" and finds a steady trickle of like minded people who buy from him. Neither builds as their sole way of making a living. Neither orders from Warmoth because they don't get a price break. Conversely, on the more established end of builders, I think Bill Crook gets his necks from USA Custom Guitars and sometimes uses Callaham bridges and he is able to mark his final product up enough (and has buyers at that price) to make it work. He also has a long standing business relationship with Brad Paisley who has bought many guitars from Bill. The guy in Idaho who builds guitars for Billy Gibbons and does prototypes for Gibson and Fender at their request does quite well.

You are so correct.  In the end, the builder has to make a name for himself regardless whose parts he use.  Assembling is one thing but to put together a choice instruments in playabilty and looks is a skill developed over time.  John Suhr and Roger Sadowsky all started with Warmoth bodies and necks until they make a name for themselves to own their own manufacturing facilities.  Build on your name to gain respect and ultimately price.

 

[Jusatele]

Pricing a Parts Caster
Lets see, buying premium Warmoth wood, Buying the best of parts retail because you want the best, Having Lollar hand wind my pickups because that is what I want, Spending several weeks over a finish like BarnDoor or a week doing a layered burst pattern with inlaid decals, studying wear patterns and doing a roadworn to that finish, then getting a custom neck plate made and assembling the thing. Next bring it to a very good guitar tech to do a neck job and set the thing up so it is like butter in your hands.
You end up paying way more money than the thing will ever be worth.

BUT DO NOT DISPAIR

I always have someone come up to me asking what year my sunburst is, and even more guys want to know about barn door, when I tell them I made those two guitars they are blown away, especially if I let them play one. So I know what I have. Hanging next to my 2 Parts Casters on the wall of my music room at home are 2 Fender made Strats, one custom shop Tele, A vintage ES 335, A PRS triple soapbar Custom 22 10 top artist edition and a Old Washburn Bass from the 80s when Washburn was USA built. Of all of those the 2 Parts Caster Teles get played the most.

So how do I price my Parts Casters? Well by sear enjoyment, I can not put a price on them as I do not see myself ever selling them. besides how many guys have a set of Abigail Ybarra hand wound Tele pickups in their Axe? And have a picture of themselves with her when they picked them up. She was a legend by the time she retired from fender and her stuff demands a premium when being sold. She was the Queen of tone.