Pinging High E String

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I've been chasing this annoying "ping" for a while now, which is coming from the high E string, but only when it's open.  I've tried adjusting the truss-rod, raising the action, lowering the action, checking the nut for burrs, changing tremolo springs, shimming the nut, removing shims from the nut, checking the string tree for burrs, adjusting the string tree, etc.  Simply put, I can not locate where this problem is stemming from, short of a possible high fret, but even then, I question whether that's the issue. 

If I pluck the string and look under it between the frets and the string, there's a ping, even if a fret isn't making contact with the string.  :icon_scratch:

Any suggestions?

 

[Cagey]

It's almost certainly the nut, but it could be a high fret. I'm not sure what you mean by a "ping". In either case, it would be somewhere between difficult and impossible to see with the naked eye.

In the case of a poorly cut nut slot, you usually end up with an open string that sounds sorta like a sitar. The side of the nut that faces the speaking length isn't sharp enough, so the string vibrates against the pivot point. It's a tiny flaw that's surprisingly noticeable.

If it were a proud fret (much less likely), it would make noise open, but get worse when fretting behind the proud one.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

It's almost certainly the nut, but it could be a high fret. I'm not sure what you mean by a "ping". In either case, it would be somewhere between difficult and impossible to see with the naked eye.

In the case of a poorly cut nut slot, you usually end up with an open string that sounds sorta like a sitar. The side of the nut that faces the speaking length isn't sharp enough, so the string vibrates against the pivot point. It's a tiny flaw that's surprisingly noticeable.

If it were a proud fret (much less likely), it would make noise open, but get worse when fretting behind the proud one.

That's basically what it is, Cagey.  It's more like a high-pitched "twang" or something.  I'll probably try replacing the nut at this point and see what happens.  I can't imagine it'll cost me more than about $50 for one.  I just can't remember what size it was.  :icon_scratch:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Sometimes it can be a hight fret, other times it can be from not enough downward pressure behind the nut (between nut & tuner post) to properly seat the nut.

Look across the side of the headstock.  If the string behind the nut looks "Level" or straight, the latter is likely your problem.  Winding the string downward on the post is probably the quickest fix.  Locking tuners are usually lower anyway.  A string retainer is another fix.  This issue is usually experienced on straight (strat/tele, etc...) headstocks, rarely on tilt backs (Gibson/Jackson, etc...)

If the twang is between the nut and a fret, then either a spot level or a new nut are the most appropriate response.

 

[Cagey]

That's basically what it is, Cagey.  It's more like a high-pitched "twang" or something.  I'll probably try replacing the nut at this point and see what happens.  I can't imagine it'll cost me more than about $50 for one.  I just can't remember what size it was.  :icon_scratch:

You may not need a new nut. Sometimes, a slight touch with something abrasive can re-shape or clean up the slot enough to eliminate the problem. Most of the nuts I see are cut a bit shallow anyway, so there's room to work with it. You may want to review this page on nut geometry, and see if you can do anything with what you have. Worst case, you have to replace the nut, but you may be headed there anyway.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Sometimes it can be a hight fret, other times it can be from not enough downward pressure behind the nut (between nut & tuner post) to properly seat the nut.

Look across the side of the headstock.  If the string behind the nut looks "Level" or straight, the latter is likely your problem.  Winding the string downward on the post is probably the quickest fix.  Locking tuners are usually lower anyway.  A string retainer is another fix.  This issue is usually experienced on straight (strat/tele, etc...) headstocks, rarely on tilt backs (Gibson/Jackson, etc...)

If the twang is between the nut and a fret, then either a spot level or a new nut are the most appropriate response.

Tony, I haven't the slightest where the twang is coming from.  I have a string "bar" behind the nut.  Would screwing that deeper into the headstock crank down enough to add some pressure, or do I have to worry about something more?  I have a Wizard neck with the "Arrow" headstock, so it's not a tilted back headstock.

 

[Cagey]

The problem isn't behind the nut, nor is it "pressure" related. Trust me - it's the exit end of the nut facing the speaking length of the string. Something is wrong there.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

The problem isn't behind the nut, nor is it "pressure" related. Trust me - it's the exit end of the nut facing the speaking length of the string. Something is wrong there.

Okay, the "goofy Thanksgiving drunk" will go ahead and get a new nut and see if that fixes the problem.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Cagey]

Before somebody shorts you $50 for a nut, what kind of nut is it? And what makes you think you can't adjust it yourself?

As I said earlier, if it's just singing a bit, you may be able to deal with it without too much trouble. Read the article at the link I gave you. If you understand what's needed, it's not that tough to get there.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

You can get this same problem from the bridge saddle as well (or in my case the TOM.)  It will sound like a sitar, sort of.  The easiest is to use some high grit sand paper, a small piece folded in half, and "smooth" out the slot the string sits in.  The end that is facing the fret board (in either case) is abrupt, but the end of the slots that are facing the head of the guitar or the end pin should be rolled over.
Patrick

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Before somebody shorts you $50 for a nut, what kind of nut is it? And what makes you think you can't adjust it yourself?

As I said earlier, if it's just singing a bit, you may be able to deal with it without too much trouble. Read the article at the link I gave you. If you understand what's needed, it's not that tough to get there.

It's a Schaller-Floyd R2 nut.  I looked at the diagrams on the link you posted but I'm just not understanding what it's trying to explain.  Is it saying I should take a piece of sandpaper to the edge of the nut closes to the headstock, or closest to the neck, or to the string "slot" itself?  If I understood the diagram, I'm sure I could probably handle this issue on my own.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

If it is a floyd nut, the nut is most likely not the problem.  It could be where the string passes over the intonation doohickey on the bridge, or the springs in the bridge could also be a problem.  But, to answer the question, you would like to keep the edge of the nut that is near the fret board square, but clean.  The side near the tuners can be rolled off to prevent hang ups on that side.  With a Floyd nut, this is less of a concern.  Little bits and pieces in the nut create a high spot and the string rattles in the nut, causing the extra note.  Use the sand paper to smooth all of that out, then clean out the dust from sanding.
Patrick

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

If it is a floyd nut, the nut is most likely not the problem.  It could be where the string passes over the intonation doohickey on the bridge, or the springs in the bridge could also be a problem.  But, to answer the question, you would like to keep the edge of the nut that is near the fret board square, but clean.  The side near the tuners can be rolled off to prevent hang ups on that side.  With a Floyd nut, this is less of a concern.  Little bits and pieces in the nut create a high spot and the string rattles in the nut, causing the extra note.  Use the sand paper to smooth all of that out, then clean out the dust from sanding.
Patrick

So do I wanna sand down where the string exits the far side of the nut, or in the "slot" in the nut, itself?

I don't think it's a bridge saddle, as I hear the ping from the high side of the neck.  I've removed all the strings and everything, so I guess now would be the time to mess around with stuff.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

For a floyd nut, the slot itself.  On a regular nut, the tuner side should roll an arc up to the fretboard side.  The fret board side should be square so that the string is held right at the end of the first fret.  The slot itself has to be smooth and free of stuff or the string will sit on junk and rattle.
Patrick

 

[Cagey]

The string should exit the nut square, as Patrick says. That's what this diagram is trying to show...

The circled area is the vibrating side of the string (the green line), the area to the right is where the strings head to the tuners. The blue "horn" is just a visual metaphor; it doesn't exist in real life. It's there to indicate the ideal slot geometry. You don't (and can't) have that on a locking nut, and don't need it.

That's a side view, and of a regular nut rather than a locker. Principle is the same, though. That transition point is where your nut is bonked.

 

[guitartom]

Can you post a picture of the nut without the B/E locking pad installed?

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Since it's a floyd, there is another potential culprit.
Can you take a pic from the side (playing position) downward at the bridge.

It should be level to the body with the base plate.

If it's tilted way far back, it's possible that the intonation screw that locks down the saddle to the base plate is interferring with the string vibration.

This is a rare scenario, but certainly one worth ruling out.

 

[guitartom]

I agree with Tony that the saddle could also be the problem.

If it were me, I would do the following:

1) Try a new e- string to make sure yours is not damaged causing it to bind and vibrate funny in the nut.
2) ensure when you install the string that it sits in the mid position where it gets locked down in the saddle.  You don't want the string to deep and you don't want it cocked off the locking pad at the bridge.
3) Measure the nut height and make sure the string rings free of the first fret (or a potentially high 2nd or 3rd fret).
4) Make sure the V in the nut is in good shape and that the string is sitting in the groove properly - this is my guess on whats going on based on seeing a bunch sitar sounding floyds. The vibration happens when the string is just slightly touching one of the sides of the small "V" where it is inserted into the locking nut. In this case, unlock the string and re-lock it while keeping the string held to one side if the "V" walls with your fingers. If you still hear the "sitar" effect, try re-locking it holding the string onto the opposite side.

You can also try tilting the nut up by placing a small foil shim towards the front of the treble side.  This will give it a better (sharper) contact point and may also eliminate the buzz. This is what Cagey is trying to show you.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I agree with Tony that the saddle could also be the problem.

If it were me, I would do the following:

1) Try a new e- string to make sure yours is not damaged causing it to bind and vibrate funny in the nut.
2) ensure when you install the string that it sits in the mid position where it gets locked down in the saddle.  You don't want the string to deep and you don't want it cocked off the locking pad at the bridge.
3) Measure the nut height and make sure the string rings free of the first fret (or a potentially high 2nd or 3rd fret).
4) Make sure the V in the nut is in good shape and that the string is sitting in the groove properly - this is my guess on whats going on based on seeing a bunch sitar sounding floyds. The vibration happens when the string is just slightly touching one of the sides of the small "V" where it is inserted into the locking nut. In this case, unlock the string and re-lock it while keeping the string held to one side if the "V" walls with your fingers. If you still hear the "sitar" effect, try re-locking it holding the string onto the opposite side.

You can also try tilting the nut up by placing a small foil shim towards the front of the treble side.  This will give it a better (sharper) contact point and may also eliminate the buzz. This is what Cagey is trying to show you.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I agree with Tony that the saddle could also be the problem.

If it were me, I would do the following:

1) Try a new e- string to make sure yours is not damaged causing it to bind and vibrate funny in the nut.
2) ensure when you install the string that it sits in the mid position where it gets locked down in the saddle.  You don't want the string to deep and you don't want it cocked off the locking pad at the bridge.
3) Measure the nut height and make sure the string rings free of the first fret (or a potentially high 2nd or 3rd fret).
4) Make sure the V in the nut is in good shape and that the string is sitting in the groove properly - this is my guess on whats going on based on seeing a bunch sitar sounding floyds. The vibration happens when the string is just slightly touching one of the sides of the small "V" where it is inserted into the locking nut. In this case, unlock the string and re-lock it while keeping the string held to one side if the "V" walls with your fingers. If you still hear the "sitar" effect, try re-locking it holding the string onto the opposite side.

You can also try tilting the nut up by placing a small foil shim towards the front of the treble side.  This will give it a better (sharper) contact point and may also eliminate the buzz. This is what Cagey is trying to show you.

Posting on an iPad and things are goofy for some reason on this thing...

Okay, I replaced all the strings, tried taking some light-grit sandpaper inside the nut and on the edges to remove any possible burrs.  I've tightened everything down, made sure there wasn't any debris in the nut, etc.  I even reinstalled it and made sure it was straight, tight, etc.  Everything is squared up, but I'm still having the same issue, even after doing everything.  Above are some photos.