Pickups for a HSS setup

[Jumble Jumble]

I don't like the 81s either.

I have no idea what a "sterile" sound is.

 

[Cagey]

I have no idea what a "sterile" sound is.

It's difficult to describe, other than to say "sterile" in this context is used as a synonym for "lifeless". The sound has little character or depth to it. It's just not interesting. You keep wanting to adjust something, but you don't know what. If you have a large enough pile of sfx, you can get something that approaches useful, but EMGs or active pickups in general have never really caught on in a big way for the reasons mentioned. That, plus you have to tempt fate by putting a battery in your guitar.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

The battery lasts for literally years. If you have one spare battery in your guitar case you're good for like 5 years.

They do take to effects very well indeed, yes. But the EMG SA pickup in neck position on a Strat, just into a nice tube amp, with nothing on top, is one of the nicest sounds in my arsenal. You get back out absolutely every nuance you put into it - picking technique, vibrato, the funny little "wah" thing that I can do but don't know how... everything.

They have taken off in a huge way, just only for metal and the occasional anomaly like David Gilmour (well know for his sterile, lifeless playing ).

 

[crash]

Thanks for the reply Johnfv.  I have a guitar project and am waffling between the Dimarzio FRED and GFS VEH.  But I am in no hurry to decide as I have other guitars I need to finish.

 

[Cagey]

The battery lasts for literally years. If you have one spare battery in your guitar case you're good for like 5 years.

I'm probably just prejudiced by being old enough to have horrible memories of when a battery's service life barely rivaled that of a fruitfly's, their shelf life could be measured in weeks, and they began to rot/leak shortly after that, ruining whatever they were installed in. Today's batteries do indeed last dramatically longer by any metric, and they might not ever leak. I just can't forgive them for wrecking my Lost in Space robot, numerous flashlights, various motorized car/truck models, transistor radios, etc.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I had some batteries leak the other day! Luckily it as just in a tv remote.

I've had my EMG Strat since 2001 and I think it's on its fourth battery. I've only had one actually go flat once - it gradually starts to sound like it's going through a cheap distortion pedal - and all the other times I've replaced it because I've been taking the guitar to pieces for some reason or another.

Also I have a separate cavity for the battery. If it did like I'd just have to replace the 9V clip.

I don't really mind having a battery, but I do find it very weird having PCBs inside the guitar, it's little tiny chips and stuff on them. And the two "tone controls" (SPC and EX-G) connect in series! What the hell is going on?

 

[alterbridgefan]

Didn't he recently switch? I thought he was now using passives with an active pre-amp.

 

[AutoBat]

Didn't he recently switch? I thought he was now using passives with an active pre-amp.

If 'he' means David Gilmour, he uses his candy apple red guitar with EMG SAs for a few songs, but primarily the black strat is back to passives (Fender '71 Neck/Mid, SD SSL-1 Bridge) and a selection of other axes to round it out.

You can get fairly detailed setups on all his gear for every era at http://www.gilmourish.com/

 

[alterbridgefan]

Didn't he recently switch? I thought he was now using passives with an active pre-amp.

If 'he' means David Gilmour, he uses his candy apple red guitar with EMG SAs for a few songs, but primarily the black strat is back to passives (Fender '71 Neck/Mid, SD SSL-1 Bridge) and a selection of other axes to round it out.

You can get fairly detailed setups on all his gear for every era at http://www.gilmourish.com/

oops, n00bish mistake... I responded to the last post on the first page. ick.

No, steve lukather.

 

[Strat Avenger]

The battery lasts for literally years. If you have one spare battery in your guitar case you're good for like 5 years.

They do take to effects very well indeed, yes. But the EMG SA pickup in neck position on a Strat, just into a nice tube amp, with nothing on top, is one of the nicest sounds in my arsenal. You get back out absolutely every nuance you put into it - picking technique, vibrato, the funny little "wah" thing that I can do but don't know how... everything.

They have taken off in a huge way, just only for metal and the occasional anomaly like David Gilmour (well know for his sterile, lifeless playing ).

My previous post complimented Gilmour's tone, and I also said that the EMG single-coils sound good.  As for the battery; one year, not 5 (and that's if you don't ever forget to unplug your guitar cable from the output jack).

When it comes to humbuckers, nothing beats the dynamics of a good passive unit.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

It is not to say that EMG's sound bad.  I think that they record remarkably well.  I have found that my style is more complimentary with passives, and whatever mojo Ken puts in his is really addictive.  I have my reasons for my quirks.  But, if they work for you, and you like the sound, then more power to ya.
Patrick

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Well, agree to disagree on the battery life thing. I meant you'd get 5 years from two batteries (including the spare one your case) which is a projection from the fact I haven't changed my battery since I moved to this house in March 2010 and it's still going strong. Of course, it's playing time, not calendar time, so I suppose it depends how much you're playing it. Mine probably gets only around 5 hours a week.

I think the thing with them is, they have no quirks. There are no hot notes on the fretboard (I had a set of passives in a strat where I could get feedback at 9th fret G string any time I hit it), or stuff like that. If you want them to sound lively and fluid, you have to get that out of your hands somehow.

The humbuckers don't really do it for me, as they're all engineered for extreme dirt and I prefer lower output humbuckers. Same as I don't use Invaders. Can't get the dynamics. I think that's an issue with the particular designs though, rather than actives in general. If someone made a low output active humbucker I'm sure it'd be fine. Not sure why they'd bother though.

However, I did say - I emg'd all my guitars at one point, and now they're all passive except one. So I'm hardly a fanboy.

 

[swarfrat]

It really irks me when people say pickups lack dynamic range. Subtract noise floor (note this includes hum and buzz, not just hiss) from peak signal and thats dynamic range. Pickups do not compress.  Perhaps the 47 pedals and amp with the gain of an EEG have something to do with your lack of dynamic range.

what pickups do have is merely sensitivity (output level) and resonant frequency.  I bought all this stuff too until I had a chance to spend some considerable time with a buddy's 70's strat with 3S's, and a silverface Super Reverb. Now  I have an SA setup  and love it. Brought out sounds from my amp I'd been chasing for years. Gave me 3 more positions on my strat. I'd never ever ever liked a bridge single clean before, now I do.

 

[drewfx]

Actually the frequency response differences can affect dynamic range (both real and perceived).

Having said that, I don't consider EMG's to lack dynamic range and suspect that at least some of the people who describe them as "compressed sounding" don't really know what compression sounds like.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I must have missed the comment about "dynamic range".

Dynamic range is not an issue. I had stated that EMGs (at least the 'buckers) have different dynamics than passives.

One example is when Reb Beach joined Dokken for a while. He's an EMG guy, but for the Dokken CD and tour, he swapped in some passives to help get those George Lynch style "chirps" that his EMGs don't do so well. Of course since his departure from Dokken, he's reinstalled the EMGs.

In any case, it's all preference.

Regarding the comment about a preference for lower-output pickups; isn't the 85 a lower output pickup than the 81? 

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Dynamic range can be applied to any measurable trait as the least point value subtracted from the most point value, not just the voltage/signal strength/loudness, as is in Swarfrat's.  And measurable is a term that can be used very loosely.  Regardless, I have had more luck with passives finding behavior I like.  And there are a lot of passive pickups that are collecting dust at my place because they didn't do it for me.  The problem I had with EMG's is, while they work for metal, even there, they sound like EMG's.  They always sounded the same to me.  And beyond my metal playing, they were not as flexible with my playing style.  Did I hear my style for the first time unfiltered?  No.  EMG's suffer from all of the electronic coloration every other pickup does.  This actually brings up another oddball idea that the Sterile sound description is like that of solid state amps.  All of the orders of harmonic distortion causing the ear to go, blah, rather than just the even ones being, "warm."  It is a terrible argument, because ultimately you have to rely on if someone likes the sound or not.  My gripe is that they always sound like EMG's when I play no matter what I do, where as the passive ones have a lot more sounds I can coax from them.  Or I could call it dynamic range.
Patrick

 

[drewfx]

Regarding the comment about a preference for lower-output pickups; isn't the 85 a lower output pickup than the 81? 

According to their specs, the output of all the EMG active HB's are similar. But to me the 85 is much more versatile PU than the 81 (assuming you aren't looking for the 1 or 2 things the 81 does better than anything else). But all the active EMG's are what they are, and what they are is a bit different. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of your taste and appropriateness for a given style.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Yeah the 85 sounds more like a PAF style humbucker than the 81, but it's still turn-your-gain-down-by-half LOUD. Meaning that if you like your preamp gain set in a particular place for what it does to the sound you're a bit stuck.