Pick up configuration for a Strat build

ggidzinski

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I am putting together a Strat build. My style includes EVH, ZZ Top, AC/DC so a Seymour Humbucker in the bridge position is a given along with a tremelo bar. Currently looking at the '78, custom custom, pearly gates, etc.

I also play some Hendrix and so it's tempting to think about single coils as well in one or both of the remaining positions. I need some advice:

1) Is it rationale to try to make guitar that can properly serve all of these styles? IOW, do humbucker/single coil guitars work?

2) If so, what configurations makes the most sense - HSS, HSH, HHS, etc?

3) Does a four wire bridge PU help you switch in the strat sound?

4) Would you go for traditional fender single coils or a modern SD solution?

Thanks,

George
 
HSS all the way. A 57 classic straight up and some custom shop 69's will take you everywhere you need to be.
 
If your set on Duncans, check out the Everything Axe setup.  With push/pulls, it'll give you all the tones you're looking for and keep it visually Strat-ish.  It can also be purchased pre-wired into a pickguard if the soldering is too daunting. 
 
Wolfie351 said:
If your set on Duncans, check out the Everything Axe setup.  With push/pulls, it'll give you all the tones you're looking for and keep it visually Strat-ish.  It can also be purchased pre-wired into a pickguard if the soldering is too daunting.

What pick ups do you suggest beyond SD's.

George
 
I'm also partial to SSH. That's just the way that a Strat should be, if I have anything to say about it.

 
ggidzinski said:
I am putting together a Strat build. My style includes EVH, ZZ Top, AC/DC so a Seymour Humbucker in the bridge position is a given along with a tremelo bar. Currently looking at the '78, custom custom, pearly gates, etc. I also play some Hendrix and so it's tempting to think about single coils as well in one or both of the remaining positions. I need some advice:

1) Is it rationale to try to make guitar that can properly serve all of these styles? IOW, do humbucker/single coil guitars work? 

Guys have been trying to build that guitar since sliced bread was a newfangled thing. It's the Holy Grail of stringed instruments. Hasn't been found yet, although starting from a Strat or Tele base is a good foundation.

In my experience, you can get dual/single coil pickup guitars to work, but it can end up a bit disappointing. The two pickup designs generally have wildly different characters to them, so they don't mix well. Switching to one pickup type or the other is fine, but together they're less than ideal. Mixing singles works, mixing duals works, mixing singles/duals doesn't. Doesn't mean you can't have both on the same guitar, but the in-between points may leave you wanting.

You can cheat that a bit by coil-splitting duals, but duals usually are usually built with smaller coils so that when you wire them into "humbucking" mode, the output doesn't cause lightning strikes. That means the single coil sound you get out of one is going to be kinda weak. Although, that's not 100% true, as there are dual coil pickups out there that are super-hot, so using half of one can work out ok. But, then when it's in humbucker mode, it's out-of-this-world hot, which may or may not be a Good Thing.

ggidzinski said:
2) If so, what configurations makes the most sense - HSS, HSH, HHS, etc?

If you must live with only one guitar, I'd do the HSS thing as has been suggested. You may have to experiment to find a good combination of parts, though. It's tough to say which will work, because your neck and bridge are going to have some noticeable effect on the character of the guitar as well. A DiMarzio Super Distortion is going to sound different on a guitar with a Maple neck and a vibrato bridge than it does on a a guitar with a Mahogany neck and a Tune-O-Matic bridge.

ggidzinski said:
3) Does a four wire bridge PU help you switch in the strat sound?

Not that I've ever heard. Split humbuckers to me just sound weak and noisy. They're not designed to sound good that way. They're simply provided that way because it's easy and the market demands it.

ggidzinski said:
4) Would you go for traditional fender single coils or a modern SD solution?

A good single coil sound is hard to decide on. Traditional single coils are very noisy, and there's little you can do about it. After some years of development, there are a number of "noiseless" singles out there. Most of them are just dual coils configured differently, and while they all work, they have varying degrees of "authenticity" to them. Oddly enough, the best ones I've heard are the least popular and least expensive. I suspect there's a mental thing going on there, but what do I know?

That's not to say that there aren't a lotta premium noiseless single coils out there; there are and I've used many of them. Each has its own character, and some prefer one over another. But, if you'll start with the ones I've mentioned, your investment will be dramatically lower than it would be with any others and you may find yourself pleasantly surprised at how good your fiddle sounds.

Anyway, if you want some noiseless pickups that sound like really good single coils, you'd have a tough time beating GFS' Neovins or especially the True Coils. The True Coils aren't truly noiseless, but they're close enough for ork 'n' orr. Another set I'd highly recommend is Bill Lawrence's Micro Coils.  In any case, those are all very high performance/high quality pickups at surprisingly low prices.

Regular PAF-style noiseless pickups are available by the wheelbarrow load at a wide variety of prices. Usually, when somebody can't decide on a humbucker, the safe bet is to throw in a Seymour Duncan JB (SH4). You just can't get pissed at one. It may not be exactly what you're looking for, but it's liable to be close. Very versatile pickup. Nice broadband response, hot enough to feed an old Fender and make it sound nice or drive a Marshall nuts, but backs down to a nice smooth tone if you wanna. I'd wager there's more music recorded with that pickup than just about any other humbucker.
 
pabloman said:
HSS all the way. A 57 classic straight up and some custom shop 69's will take you everywhere you need to be.

Yup, that would probably be pretty durn close...
 
Cagey, thanks for your detailed response.

Looking through the completed projects I see that many have tried mixing pick ups but more have not, including your project of the month - nice guitar. I need to decide if I want a single purpose guitar or more of a project.

I was considering a rear rout because I like the look but a universal top rout would allow more experimentation. I have to decide on asthetics but what is your take on the universal rout(e)?

Thanka,

George
 
You might want to check out Eric Zs strat, there's a link in the thread below to his website with full specs, wiring and so on. It's an HSH configuration.

http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17538.msg258587#msg258587

I think they can work well, I even have an HSSH but that isn't a Warmoth.
 
I really like Zexcoil p'ups. They're so versatile. You can go from a SC to a HB in singlecoil size. They're noiseless as well and in my humble opinion they sound much better, than other SC p'usp on the market. Just check 'em out.
 
I forgot to mention the switching......use a Black Beauty type toggle switch. It'll give you Bridge/middle-neck/neck. That's everything you need with no compromises.
 
ggidzinski said:
...what is your take on the universal rout(e)?

They're quite useful, particularly if you plan to do some experimentation. Changing configurations then becomes simply a matter of changing pickguards, which are fairly easy to come by. A couple ounces of wood loss out of 60-70 to start with is certainly not going to affect the tone of the thing. Hell, even the chambered bodies where up to 25% of the wood is lost barely affects the tone, if at all. It's more of a weight loss thing.
 
ggidzinski said:
Wolfie351 said:
If your set on Duncans, check out the Everything Axe setup.  With push/pulls, it'll give you all the tones you're looking for and keep it visually Strat-ish.  It can also be purchased pre-wired into a pickguard if the soldering is too daunting.

What pick ups do you suggest beyond SD's.

George

I did a similar Strat, 3 single coil rear rout with the end goal of versatility.  I wasn't quite happy with the SD offerings so I went with DiMarzio...Fast Track 2 (bridge) - Cruiser (middle) - Pro Track (neck) with push/pulls on all three.  Couldn't be happier, can go from screaming metal to surf to a smooth jazz lead.  I have guitars that can do each of those better, but if I'm grabbing just one guitar, it would be this one.  Most people here (including myself) tend to over analyze everything so try not to let the choices overwhelm you. H-S-S setup is a good choice as well and will open up your options for the bridge humbucker which sounds like you'd be using the most.  But, personally, I just need that neck humbucker for my Carlos Santana impersonations. 
 
HSS strats are very versatile (IMO) and I have a couple of them and one soon to be on the way. I still have a Yamaha strat copy that was HSS and that is where it started for me. Played clean the bridge humbucker somewhat makes me think of a tele bridge in output compared to the strat single coils on it. When I started talking to people about an HSS partscaster those who had a sincere, professional opinion said they felt they were useful and also involved a few compromises (not in a bad way). I have one with a trio of Kleins, two Epic '56 vintage type single coils and one of their PAF humbuckers (minus a cover) in the bridge. I love it. With a power conditioner and putting the amp at the right angle it is not annoying in the noise department. Cagey is working on an HSS strat for me that has Zhangbucker pickups that will be interesting to check out. Those are slightly hotter than vintage. I can relate to your music interests and mine can be similar, which is why I have a couple HSS strats. One pickup I have laying around that I have yet to use (and will use at some point) that you may want to consider for a bridge humbucker is an EVH Frankenstein and rumor has it Seymour Duncan makes those for EVH. It's supposed to be clear and punchy but cleans up well. Probably more output than the other options and you want to weigh that as you balance single coils and a humbucker. I would not be surprised if you can get away with more difference there than you might assume. The one issue there is that it has Gibson spacing. My present HSS strat has an F spaced humbucker.

All in all, I think you are on the right track. Funny that I am about to exhaust my allowance on one further strat that will have all single coils like a traditional one but I have no plans to give up my HSS strat(s) anytime. I wouldn't worry about pickup route. I have one guitar that is routed HSS and two other bodies with universal route. I have concluded that I agree with most forum members here that the physical sound of the  instrument is largely influenced by the neck wood and the pickups. Good luck in your project.
 
The EVH Frankie PU is actually on my list with Custom Custom, '78, Pearly Gates and a few Boutique choices. The EVH sounds pretty good on a shootout that I listened to but not more so than say a custom custom.

My latest thinking is an HSH route and an HSS pickguard to start with, undrilled for pots and switches. Less wood removed, covers the options I can foresee.
 
ggidzinski said:
The EVH Frankie PU is actually on my list with Custom Custom, '78, Pearly Gates and a few Boutique choices. The EVH sounds pretty good on a shootout that I listened to but not more so than say a custom custom.

My latest thinking is an HSH route and an HSS pickguard to start with, undrilled for pots and switches. Less wood removed, covers the options I can foresee.

Good list you have narrowed it down to. In the end you gotta go with what really speaks to you. HSH on the routing would give you plenty of option to work with.
 
musicispeace said:
Good list you have narrowed it down to. In the end you gotta go with what really speaks to you. HSH on the routing would give you plenty of option to work with.
I'll vouch for that. My Strat is routed HSH. It was SSS when I got it. Then I tried some different combinations. In the end, it ended up HH.
 
My Warmoth has HS wiring with Suhr SSH and Dimarzio Injector (stacked single coil). Both pickups are just great for rock, basically for the bands you've listed. And Suhr humbucker was the first bridge pickup I like the clean tone. HS combination works fine, while the single coil isn't lower than mid-output. I've tried higher output SD TB-4 and SD STK-S4 and just wasn't able to balance the pickups evenly for the dirty chanel.

All in all, just check Suhr pickups - I've checked only one model, but I'm willing to try more  :cool01: And true single coils are just not worth it IMO, compared to stacked versions. Especially for driven sounds.
 
EVH and AC/DC would be getting that sound from a vintage-style PAF pickup in the bridge.  I've seen the specs of the EVH pickup and it's quite low power with not a lot of resistance.  In my experience, to get that sound you want a pickup sort of like that, with a nice open sound where you get a lot of definition when riffing.

A pickup I think does a really great job with that is the DiMarzio FRED, which is a tweaked PAF Pro.  The boosted mids really make all that kind of stuff pop.  The issue with all those pickups is that they're way too powerful and way too fat to get any sort of passable Strat-like bridge pickup sound.  The only solution I've ever seen that I liked is using a high pass filter.  This is discussed as the "Ibanez JS" wiring in a thread in that forum.  That guitar uses a FRED in in the bridge and when you kick in the high pass and the coil tap, I think it does a pretty good Strat.  Much better than any split coil sound I've ever heard anyway.
 
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