Peavey Custom Shop - is this plagiarism??

dbw

Senior member
Messages
4,531
Okay, check this out.  The wood descriptions on Peavey's custom guitar builder thing (http://www.peavey.com/hpspecial/index.html) seem to be lifted from Warmoth's body wood description page!!  Is Warmoth aware of this or did Peavey plagiarize it?

Here's a screenshot from Peavey.com:
Peavey.com said:
2585569978_e5ed26cd89_o.jpg

...which is clearly copied from this (emphasis mine):
Warmoth.com said:
Alder (Alnus rubra):
Alder is used extensively for bodies because of its lighter weight (about four pounds for a Strat® body) and its full sound. Its closed grain makes this wood easy to finish. Alder's natural color is a light tan with little or no distinct grain lines. It looks good with a sunburst or a solid color finish. Because of its fine characteristics and lower price, Alder is our most popular wood and it grows all around us here in Washington State. The tone is reputed to be most balanced with equal doses of lows, mids and highs. Alder has been the mainstay for Fender bodies for many years and its characteristic tone has been a part of some of the most enduring pieces of modern day contemporary music.
 

shanejw

Senior member
Messages
698
Who's waiting in line for a Peavey guitar anyway?  I've had a couple of them and was not impressed.
 
O

OzziePete

Guest
Whoopsie. Caught out badly Peavey. :sad:

Can Warmoth insist they write their own or at least attribute the text to it's original source, on their website?
 

stubhead

Senior member
Messages
4,669
Warmoth and USA Custom supply wood to some of the top "custom" and factory builders - the real question is, why do people pay Peavey $700 to screw some stuff together, or Bill Crook or Tom Anderson $1500 to screw some stuff together? Oh wait - people pay $2 for a bottle of name-brand tap water, and $4 for a cup of coffee with the right logo (look what I drink, I must be so-oo smart....) Sorry, my bad. :toothy11:
 

ByteFrenzy

Senior member
Messages
1,177
Peavy aren't the only ones...
'The Canadian Guitar Forum' www.guitarscanada.com/woods.htm has this to say about Alder:
"Alder is used extensively for bodies because of its lighter weight (about four pounds for a Strat body) and its full sound. Its closed grain makes this wood easy to finish. Alder's natural color is a light tan, with little or no distinct grain lines. Alder has been the mainstay for Fender bodies for many years. It looks good with a sunburst and in solid colors"

This post on Harmony Central http://acapella.harmony-central.com/archive/index.php/t-1610747.html quotes the exact text from the Warmoth site, but at least the poster 'Onkel Bob' correctly credits Warmoth as the source.
 

JTM

Active member
Messages
51
Regarding Crook and Anderson I have to disagree, all they do is get the body or necks precut by some manufacturers like Warmoth or USACG probably because they have no interest in doing the CNC and machining themselve as the initial investment in the machines wouldn't be profitable. And frankly what would be the point doing it by hand - would be much slower and would add nothing.

But they do much more than just screw them together: Crook does some amazing paisleys you won't find anywhere else and Anderson has some extremely sophisticated UV cured finishes  that are the hardest you''ll find ( I think only PRS do something similar ) on top of being gorgeous. Both do a lot of work on the guitars including finishing but also setting up, choosing the right pickups, and electronics, dressing the frets and in some cases doing addional carving etc... But mainly these guys have luthier knowledge and spend TIME on each guitar to make sure that it is perfect when you get it.
So that definitely has more value than just their brand name.

Warmoth is great and I love the ones I have built or am building, but the day I'll want the perfect tele out of the box I'll get a Crook one.
 

stubhead

Senior member
Messages
4,669
I was being somewhat snide about "just screw them together", but still... the huge difference between a $1200 Fender and a $2500 Fender custom shop is in the details, as is the difference between a $2500 Les Paul and a $5000 one. You have to level the frets, crown each one, attend to all 22 (24) fret ends, you have to attend to the fretboard edges, you have to learn how to make a perfect nut - or a Warmoth or any other guitar isn't finished to it's best. That's maybe $300 worth of work tops to pay someone to do it, or learn to do it yourself - there's no rocket science, you need a 10X loupe, $150 worth of files, patience.... Erlewine's book, some reading on the theory of fret shaping, etc.

I should say, I build boards that rock, not wall candy, so I admire finishes that belong on walls, but I wouldn't take them to a bar gig. However, I practice six or eight hours some days, so I have to have good fretwork. Can you imagine what goes into the selection of the wood at Fender for guitars that they know are going to be relic'd? I'm pretty sure you don't use the primo wood on a blowtorched $4000 relic.
 

m4rk0

Senior member
Messages
5,383
ByteFrenzy said:
Peavy aren't the only ones...
'The Canadian Guitar Forum' www.guitarscanada.com/woods.htm has this to say about Alder:
"Alder is used extensively for bodies because of its lighter weight (about four pounds for a Strat body) and its full sound. Its closed grain makes this wood easy to finish. Alder's natural color is a light tan, with little or no distinct grain lines. Alder has been the mainstay for Fender bodies for many years. It looks good with a sunburst and in solid colors"

This post on Harmony Central http://acapella.harmony-central.com/archive/index.php/t-1610747.html quotes the exact text from the Warmoth site, but at least the poster 'Onkel Bob' correctly credits Warmoth as the source.

if I remember correctly, Edenhaus/hefner had copied warmoth's descriptions almost word for word a while ago.
if you read it (http://edenhaus.com/woods.htm) you can still see it is roughly the same, mixed up a little and some alternative words here and there.
 

dbw

Senior member
Messages
4,531
ognolman said:
Do we know for sure that Warmoth didn't snag it from someone else?

JBD

Hmm, I guess not.  I just assumed the best about my favorite :)

I've got my eye on you, Ken Warmoth  :icon_biggrin:
 

ognolman

Senior member
Messages
351
dbw said:
ognolman said:
Do we know for sure that Warmoth didn't snag it from someone else?

JBD

Hmm, I guess not.  I just assumed the best about my favorite :)

I've got my eye on you, Ken Warmoth  :icon_biggrin:


:laughing7: Well it's probably a safe assumption to make.

JBD
 

simple

Senior member
Staff member
Messages
2,101
ognolman said:
Do we know for sure that Warmoth didn't snag it from someone else?

JBD
Ken Warmoth first authored those wood description for the 1983 Warmoth Gutiar Products Paper catalog. I guess he should have copyrighted them.  :laughing7:
 

dbw

Senior member
Messages
4,531
If there was a copyright symbol on it, it's copyrighted.  In fact, that isn't even necessary since some law or other was passed, I think in 1990.
 

ognolman

Senior member
Messages
351
dbw said:
If there was a copyright symbol on it, it's copyrighted.  In fact, that isn't even necessary since some law or other was passed, I think in 1990.

I as I understand it, the copyright symbol is not a requirement and there is no requirement to register the work.  Those things just make it easier to enforce a copyright suit against infringement.

JBD
 

stubhead

Senior member
Messages
4,669
SHHH!

If Ken Warmoth finds out he can make a pile of money just by suing people, he might stop worrying about the product he's putting out -

Gib...gib, gb gb gbrrrg :eek:

Next thing you know he'll be "merging" with a Chinese stompbox mfgr. too and "Warmoths" will be in the twofer racks at Wal-Mart. :redflag:
 
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